Dorothy: [00:00:00] There are some mother daughter experiences that no one ever wants to have, but Linda Petticrew and her daughter Rachel Evans have both had mastectomies for very different reasons. Linda was diagnosed at 34 and went through multiple treatments, part of which led Rachel to make the tough decision to have a prophylactic mastectomy at age 25. She was BRCA1 positive. During this episode, they talk frankly about their experiences and why taking drastic steps is often the very best prevention when it comes to breast cancer.
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Let’s Talk About Your Breasts, a different kind of podcast presented to you by The Rose Breast Center of Excellence [00:01:00] and a Texas treasure. You’re going to hear frank discussions about tough topics and you’re going to learn why knowing about your breast could save your life.
So today we have Rachel and Linda here as a mother daughter team who had their own experience with breast cancer from a very different angle. And I’m so pleased that you’re here with us to talk about this. Tell us just a little bit about your story first, Linda. You were diagnosed at 34.
Linda: I was, and went through chemo, then surgery, then more chemo, then radiation. It was a year of treatment. And then I was cancer free for many, many years. And then I had a lumpectomy, so I still had my breast tissue. And then it came back years later. Uh, so that’s, so then years later in 2018, I had the double mastectomy and I found out, you know, I [00:02:00] was BRCA1 positive, so I’d had a hysterectomy. Um, So I wouldn’t have any chance of having ovarian cancer, which I did not want to take that risk.
Dorothy: As we know, BRCA1 can be for both breast and ovarian. So when you were diagnosed, you had a young son, you’re four months old, you were just a very young mother, and then you had Rachel. And then, Rachel, your story was being raised around cancer all your life. Now, you didn’t, you weren’t used to anyone, being, having cancer, right?
Linda: Right. Um, my, my father’s mother had died of uterine cancer, but she died when I was 12 days old. So, so, I never knew her. And, uh, yeah, no, no one in my family, um, had breast cancer. Um, My, my great aunt had it when she was 80, but they told me that’s, [00:03:00] that’s, you know, that’s too far and too far, you know, on the relation and too, too older. So no one in my family until I had it had, had had breast cancer.
Dorothy: Now, very different story for you, Rachel.
Rachel: I was surrounded by cancer. My mom had had cancer before I was born. My aunt had had breast cancer. My dad had thyroid cancer. Um, later in life when I met my husband, he had gone through cancer treatment, several of my mom’s friends went through breast cancer and different cancer diagnosis. So I grew up being surrounded by those that had beat cancer.
Dorothy: Right. Right. And I think that’s such a contrast between the different generations because there was a time when cancer was not something that that you thought you would beat. There was a time it meant death or all the other things and very frightening. How old were you when you had your BRCA testing?
Rachel: I was 21.
Dorothy: 21. And you decided [00:04:00] to have a double mastectomy at what age?
Rachel: 25.
Dorothy: Oh, I mean that’s so young.
Rachel: When you’re 25 you don’t think you’re young but looking back I’m only 30 now but I was young to make that decision.
Dorothy: Very young.
Rachel: Young where you are in life with, with what you’ve accomplished in life but when my mom got the diagnosis again, or when her cancer came back, there was no other option.
Dorothy: How did you feel, Linda, when you knew Rachel had uh, tested positive?
Linda: I felt guilty, cuz, you know, I’m the one that gave it to her. Although, you know, I know there was nothing I could do, but you still feel guilty. And I just felt bad that she had to go through and make these decisions, which I’m so thankful that, you know, she’s such a strong woman and, and I’m so thankful that she made this decision because now she doesn’t, you know, have to worry about it as much.
Dorothy: Did y’all talk about it? Did she consult you [00:05:00] when you were thinking about doing this?
Rachel: We talked a lot about it. So my aunt got the testing done first. She had a positive result. Then you did the testing, got a positive result. And then you were very supportive about me having the test done when it was right for me.
Linda: Right.
Rachel: Um, I’m glad that you urged it though. And that you, I wouldn’t say pushy, but that you kept, um, stressing the importance of it. So we did talk a lot about it. We made sure it was the right timing. I don’t think my mom wanted me to have it done as quickly as I did, but I was eager. I wanted to know. I wanted to know if it was something that I was going to have to worry about even though, you know, my, the symptoms or the diagnosis wouldn’t come and, you know, until you were, you know, in your thirties, I just, I just, I really wanted answers.
Dorothy: And so you didn’t have your first child until after your mastectomy?
Rachel: Correct. So I had my mastectomy in 2018 and I welcomed my first child in 2022.
Dorothy: I’m just [00:06:00] curious, where was your dad in all this? Was he a part of these conversations or?
Rachel: I don’t think he was part of the conversations. Um, we’re strong women. We’re going to do what we want to do, but he’s always been a huge nurse.
Uh, when my mom had her mastectomy in October of 2018, he took care of her. When I had my mastectomy in December of 2018, he was there to take care of me. So he’s always been. Very supportive of what we want to do. Um, very, um, encouraging, but also always there. Once we made that decision, he, and I think he knows that there’s not, there’s no, you can’t change our minds.
Dorothy: Right, right.
Linda: He’s learned that over the years.
Dorothy: Oh, okay.
Linda: You know that. We say something, you know, we’re gonna do, do it and everything. But he is, he’s a great nurse.
Dorothy: That. That’s a terrific description. And, and, you know, men can be very, uh, nurturing and caring, and they’re not as [00:07:00] sometimes we think of them as being a little squeamish, but, you know, if they have to do something, they would. So, how did people react when you two said, well, I’m having a mastectomy, my mother just had one, we’re going through our recovery together? What kind of reaction did you get?
Linda: People were probably amazed, you know, um, they felt bad that we had to go through this, but, um, we’ve always been just a huge support system. All my, our friends and family have been very supportive.
Dorothy: Now yours was for cancer, and yours was a prophylactic. How was the, the, uh, recovery different, or was it?
Linda: Well, I, I don’t, I think when you, seems like, and I, I don’t know this for sure, but it seems like when you have cancer, it’s just more invasive. Uh, although they take the, the breasts, the breast tissue out of both, but it just seems more invasive.
Rachel: We have [00:08:00] very different surgeries.
Linda: Yeah. So I had my, uh, the tummy, uh, fat taken and to build my breasts. Uh.
Rachel: And I had implants.
Linda: And Rachel had implants. You know, she didn’t have the tummy, tummy fat. And, uh, so. You know, I, I had to recover from, from like a tummy tuck and the breast. Um, but.
Rachel: So your recovery was, was much harder.
Linda: It was.
Rachel: Because of the stomach and the boobs. Mine was just boobs.
Linda: Right.
Rachel: I was only in pain, a lot of pain for a couple days. Where as yours was a couple weeks.
Linda: Yeah, and I was, I stayed in, I stayed in the hospital for a week. Or, for five days. I’m very thankful I was able to that my, you know, I, I work for a great company with good, good benefits and you know, I was allowed to stay there that long, which was, very helpful, uh, to have the, the round, the, you know, around the clock care.
’cause when you do have that much surgery, it, it was very daunting. I know. I was afraid to just on [00:09:00] the ride home. I think I may, uh, I had Rachel and, and her then boyfriend or fiance come pick me up ’cause she had the newest car. So I thought , I thought it would be smoother. Um, and, uh. I waited and didn’t go home until Saturday. I thought it would be less traffic. You know, just being in a car, just the movement.
Rachel: Houston potholes.
Linda: Yeah, I was scared of that, but everything went great. And, um, yeah, I was, I had to stay home for six weeks to recover. And it, it was hard, but I had a lot of support. A lot of love and support.
Dorothy: Rachel, you had drains in the whole bit too, right?
Rachel: Oh yeah, I had the drains. Those are very uncomfortable. Um, Gross. Have to, I mean, drain them all the time. Um, but I’m glad I made the decision to go direct to implant. So I didn’t have to do the expanders because I heard that’s very painful. Um, so mine was not terrible. I will say when I went through my four surgeries after [00:10:00] my mastectomy for the reconstruction, those were more painful. Liposuction hurts. Um, people don’t talk about it enough. It is painful. And you have to wear this tight, um, compression after. It was, I mean, those were almost as painful as the mastectomy. The drains were definitely uncomfortable. Getting them out was a weird feeling, but it wasn’t terrible. If people think that the pain is a barrier to having the surgery, it’s not. It’s more that you’re mentally, you know, prepared, spiritually prepared, and have a support system.
Dorothy: So did you feel like you were mentally prepared?
Rachel: I did. I thought I was mentally prepared. I definitely was not mentally prepared. When you’re 25, you think you know everything. You think you have it all figured out. You definitely don’t. Um, I was confident in the decision because of what my mom was going through, but I definitely didn’t know how it would impact how I felt as a woman, how I felt being feminine, how I would feel in a relationship. Um, I wasn’t ready [00:11:00] and I, I definitely had some regrets. I went through a lot of hard times.
I had to come to terms with the, with my new body. And you don’t have as, I wouldn’t say you, you don’t have as much support cause you have support from your family, but people don’t understand why you went through it. What BRCA is, what a pre, a previvor is, you know, why would you go through something when, What if, when it’s not a diagnosis, what if you never got diagnosed with cancer and you decided to make this decision? So there’s a lot of—
Dorothy: Did people ask you that? Did they actually—
Rachel: I did. So I posted on my Instagram. I was very open and I said I’m having, you know, a mastectomy because I have the BRCA gene. I got a lot of questions about what the BRCA gene is, how you get tested for it, because a lot of, a lot of my friends, their aunt or their grandmother, their mom had gone through ovarian or breast cancer and they had never heard of the BRCA gene.
So there’s a lot of people that haven’t heard of it, that don’t know what it is, that don’t know insurance, if [00:12:00] insurance will cover how, who they talk to about getting tested for the BRCA gene. There’s not a lot of information out there that’s shown to them. I’m sure if you go seeking it, that’s one thing, but it’s not the forefront of people’s minds that there is this testing available to see if you are, you know, do you have a higher risk of, of developing?
Dorothy: To be predisposed to it, yes. Now, but that’s so interesting because where do we really get our information? It’s from our friends, you know, it’s from the people we trust the most. And, and that’s often why here at The Rose we’re always saying, Tell your girlfriend, get your mammogram, don’t let them, let a lump go by. I mean, for you, when you found your lump after childbirth, after you couldn’t really breast feed. But you never hesitated, did you, to go and have it checked out?
Linda: No, no, because it was, it was a large, very large lump, I thought. And no, I went right away and got the mammogram, because I’ve [00:13:00] always believed knowledge is power. And, um, so I needed to know what it was and, and to deal with it right away.
Rachel: Had you had mammograms before, or was that your first?
Linda: No, no.
Rachel: They didn’t start them that early.
Linda: Because they, back then, they, I don’t know, they started them at 40, and I was 34. So, and I had, my bosses had some doctor friends that told them, Oh, she’s way too young to have cancer. You know, she doesn’t have breast cancer. And I was like, yeah, they, they don’t know. They, there was so much, there was so much knowledge they didn’t have yet.
Dorothy: Well, but that, it still exists today. Believe me. And it’s not just within the medical community. We have so many conflicting messages about mammography, about age, about being young. And, you know, we, we, 25 percent of our, our patients that are diagnosed are, are 45 or younger. Now, that’s young. And so, we hear this story all the time. I, I had this lump for a while, but, you know, they kept telling me I’m too young for a [00:14:00] mammogram. And women have had to just barrel through and say, I’m getting a mammogram.
You have to order me one. Big, big lesson for young women to, to do that and to really insist on, on what they know they need to have done. I think that’s one of your stories and one of your messages. You know, find out about it. Don’t be afraid to, to research and find out what it means.
Rachel: Ask the questions.
Dorothy: Yes. So now, something I was very curious about, so many different generational, um, misconceptions, practices, reactions, but when you, you were both working at the time that you had your surgeries, but you didn’t have quite the support in the beginning as Rachel did.
Linda: Well, the first time, my first breast cancer, I was working for a company and they, I mean, they didn’t tell me, no, you [00:15:00] can’t have the time off, but they just weren’t as supportive. Um, one of, one of the partners told me that, uh, when I left, that he, it’s something that it cost them a lot of money. So that, that was, you know, but that was back in, in 93 or 92. I don’t remember exactly. And, um, you know, I thought, just thought that was really rude. Now, when I, the second time. I had cancer. Uh, I worked for, uh, I, and I still do. I work for Shell and they were so supportive because I had that same year I’d had a full knee replacement, um, in March and I was, you know, went through, uh, and I was off for six weeks then.
And I was, uh, had to go through therapy and, and then here comes July, July or August. And, uh, during my checkup, which I ne— I never, I never miss, missed a [00:16:00] checkup, uh, in in And I went every six months, uh, they found the second breast cancer. And I had, I had a, uh, the double mastectomy in October. And my manager and the company was so supportive. I had to take off another six weeks. And, um, I, I, you know, I was so lucky, so blessed that I was with such a great company and had such good people around me and family and friends and,
Rachel: Good benefits.
Linda: Yes, great, great benefits.
Dorothy: You know, in the population The Rose serves, about a fourth of our ladies don’t have that access, don’t have that ability. But for you, Rachel, it, it was just a given. Your, your company was behind you, supportive.
Rachel: So supportive. So I started with my company in August of 2016, Camillo Companies. And when I told them I was having, um, a prophylactic mastectomy. No, there wasn’t cancer. I was, you know, this was elective. This was my [00:17:00] choice. They were very supportive. I took off I think five weeks, um, early in my career. Um, it was a very stressful time, you know, with a lot going on in the real estate market and they were like, take all the time you need. Uh, we are still a women run company. Um, and not only did they let me take the time, but now, they’ve let me instill a lot of practices in our company. So bringing the mammogram bus to our office in October, donating to various charities that impact, um, our employee base. So they are very pro health. They’re very pro take the time you need to take care of yourself. And I’m so grateful. That was one of the main factors was, was I going to lose my job?
You know, so early in your career, it was my first job. I didn’t want to lose. I’ve been there for, um, my job only being there two years. You know, I wanted to, to stay long term and I’m, I’ve been there now almost eight years. Um, and I’m very [00:18:00] grateful that I had that support. Um, but I remember now why we also made the decision to do it when I was 25. I was on both insurances. So it was fully covered. If one insurance didn’t pay for it, the other insurance did, and you being with Shell had also great benefits. So. It was great, um, from cost savings as well as timing, because it, cost is a big barrier.
Dorothy: Oh, yes.
Rachel: You don’t want the burden of all these medical bills.
Dorothy: No matter what, no matter, even if you have great insurance, there’s still cost involved. People just don’t realize how costly cancer is, how expensive it is. But you both agree, having that support of your employer is huge.
Linda: I couldn’t have done it without it. It gives you peace of mind. You’re not worrying about, you know, am I still going to have my job? Um, you know, am I going to be.
Rachel: It’s going to be weird when you come back.
Linda: Is something going to change in my career because of this? Yeah, no. Having the, the support, [00:19:00] uh, of your employer is huge.
Dorothy: Big, big message for all employers to hear. And now, Rachel, go back to the, to the mammography coach that The Rose takes to your building, right? And why is that so important for, uh, your coworkers to have that?
Rachel: So anytime you have an appointment, most of the time it’s gonna be in the med center. It’s going to be a far drive. Our office is off at 290 and Hollister. So it’s not close to the med center by any means. And we had some complaints that a lot of people and women weren’t going to get these tests done because they had to take off a whole day of work.
Not that they couldn’t take off, but because it was just inconvenient. And so we always listen to the feedback of our teams. And so we made it, uh um, a best practice of ours to bring the mammogram bus, to bring the bus for them to donate blood, to bring the resources to them, to make it easier for them, to ensure that they have these tests done on, on time, [00:20:00] and to put it front of mind. You know, you can put these tests off, but when you have a huge pink bus out in your parking lot, it reminds you to have these things done. Whether it’s your first time, your fifth time, it doesn’t matter. It’s, it’s right there in front of your face.
Dorothy: And what our patients tell us that have had the mammogram on the mobile mammography coach is 75 percent of them would not have had that mammogram that year had we not been there. And you know, we diagnose women all year long through that coach. And it’s just, it’s just scary to me to think. They wouldn’t have even had it. They could have gone on for another two or three years before they had it.
Rachel: Sometimes you never realize how long you push things off.
Dorothy: Oh, absolutely.
Rachel: I’m bad about the dentist. I’m like, I’ll push it off a little bit before you know it. It’s been eight months.
Dorothy: And who’s the one that’s most often calling you? All right, it’s your time.
Rachel: Oh, totally. Sending you birthday emails and everything.
Dorothy: Absolutely. We do need those reminders. Life is busy. We’re involved. It’s, it’s [00:21:00] really, It’s really important to have the support of your family, your community, and your employer, and of course these community resources. You know, I, I do feel strongly our mobile mammography coach is our biggest mission, taking it out there. But I want you to spend just two minutes telling us about EWI, because, you know, I, I think of all the stories that both of you have told me, it has to do with women, supporting women, And, and having strong women around you to get us through those tough times. So, Linda, you’ve been president of it.
Linda: Yep.
Dorothy: Tell us what the organization is. Start with that.
Linda: It is, um, executive assistance and, and now, other positions, uh, companies all over Houston. Um, we do have a, it’s mostly women. We do have a few male, uh, members now and it’s, we do a lot of philanthropy. Uh, we, [00:22:00] we give scholarships away to high school students and also to, uh, a group of people that’s called ASSIST, uh, adults in scholastic transition.
If maybe somebody couldn’t couldn’t finish college or couldn’t go to college because they maybe had a baby or something happened in their life, uh, then, um, we have, so we have that assist program for scholarships. We do reading rally every year at an elementary school. We support, uh, The Rose, uh, every year, um, and, and it’s, it’s the, I’ve met, I have so many friends now, through EWI and colleagues, and it’s a great, um, networking system. Um.
Dorothy: All executive level women working within the, well, a few men, but within the fields. But you also have many programs that are just for each other. just to help you understand what’s going on in the business [00:23:00] world.
Linda: Right. Yes. Right. We do, um, we have professional development every year for everyone. Um, my, my most thing that, that I love most are, are the people I’ve met. Um, the, the friendships I’ve made throughout the years. Um, when, when, um, somebody I work with want, need something, uh, and they’re not sure. You know who to go to. I can reach out to any member of the exec, uh, EWI, all over the country and, and get, get information for ’em or get a, a lead for ’em or get a connection for them. Uh, it’s a great organization.
Dorothy: Is this something you have to be nominated into?
Linda: No. No. You just, you just, uh, you just reach out to our membership director and, uh, we send, we send you a, uh, package and you can apply. We’re, we’re, we’re looking for new members now [00:24:00] and, um, it’s great, great organization.
Dorothy: So, you know, there’s, there’s just two things that, that I want to add to that. First of all, one of my employees benefited from your program that was assist and now has gone on to get her master’s. I mean, she’s just amazing. I was so pleased that that worked for her. But the other thing is having this network, you know, Rachel, you’ve mentioned that many times, just being, having those people around you that were there to support, do you know, so many women’s organizations really went under during COVID and to know that EWI is there. That it’s still strong, that you could, you know, you have those connections. We are all hungry for connection. We’re all lonely in so many ways.
Rachel: And we need it. It’s hard to meet other women. I mean, I grew up with the women in EWI. How long have you been in EWI?
Linda: Oh gosh, I think since [00:25:00] 2005.
Rachel: So I grew up around all those women. And when she says she’s made a lot of friends, she has way more friends than I could ever imagine having, which is incredible. I want to have that many friends. Um, a small group of friends from EWI made an even smaller group called the YNETS. And I’m fortunate enough to be welcomed into that group of women my mother’s age.
But it doesn’t matter the age, it’s that support system. It’s women supporting women. But it’s been cool to grow up going to these dinners with my mom. Being, seeing all these women supporting other women. Seeing the network of women, too, and it’s hotels, it’s banks, it’s, I mean, there’s, it’s any organization. Once I’m done having all my babies, I’m excited to join, too, and be a part of EWI as well.
Dorothy: With their mothers, they’re successful women, strong. Yeah, I, I, it’s just an amazing organization. Yes. And I think that’s a great way to close up our session here [00:26:00] is the importance of each other.
Rachel: Yeah, women need to support women.
Dorothy: Yes. And thank you for what you do.
Linda: And The Rose does, because I know it’s helped so many, so many people.
Dorothy: We’ve had an incredible support from our communities, just like with EWI, but I think that probably the most important thing any, any of our supporters could do is be sure that other women know about us. We don’t want anyone to have to go through this without help.
Linda: Right.
Dorothy: And there’s so many out there that still don’t. So, thank y’all for helping us to share that. Thank you both for being with us, such great stories, we appreciate you and hope to have you back soon.
Rachel: Thank you for having us.
Linda: Thank you so much.
Post-Credits: Thank you for joining us today on Let’s Talk About Your Breasts. This podcast is produced by Speke Podcasting and brought to you by The Rose. Visit therose.org to learn more about our organization. Subscribe to our podcast. Share episodes with friends, and join the [00:27:00] conversation on social media using #LetsTalkAboutYourBreasts. We welcome your feedback and suggestions. Consider supporting The Rose. Your gift can make the difference to a person. Remember, self care is not selfish, it’s essential.
