Dorothy: [00:00:00] We all make promises, some we keep, and some are almost impossible to keep. Author Frank DiMaio made a promise to his wife before she died from breast cancer. Trying to keep that promise was a journey that took him across an ocean And also meant going very deep within himself.
Let’s Talk About Your Breast. A different kind of podcast presented to you by The Rose. The Breast Center of Excellence and a Texas treasure. You’re going to hear frank discussions about tough topics. And you’re going to learn why knowing about your breast could save your life. Join us as we hear another story and we answer those tough questions that you may have.
Your book was so touching to me, probably because, like you, I found the love of my life in a later stage. of [00:01:00] life. And so just tell us the highlights of this, of your love affair with, with Judith.
Frank: Um, started in the late eighties at the time I was going through a divorce. And she came into my office for treatment from a car accident.
And I presented this discussion or explanation in the book as the first part of how we met. But, uh, it just took me aback. Now, understand that I wasn’t interested. I was going through a divorce. I’m not, at that particular time, I said, you know, I’m not interested in having any kind of a relationship with anyone, but I was treating her as a patient.
I took care of her. Gave her the care that she needed. She did well. I released her.
Dorothy: And now, wait, you’re a chiropractor.
Frank: Yes, chiropractic physician.
Dorothy: Yes.
Frank: And, uh, I did post graduate studies for what they call a diplomate in neurology. [00:02:00] But, uh, I was almost done with that. And ended up with a triple disc herniation from power lifting.
And I ended up having to close my office because of it. Because it took such a long time. But back to Judith and I. She came back in the office. Treated her again, released her, a year went by, she came back in the office, brought her children with her, took care of all of them. And then one night, uh, I wanted to give back, so I was writing a resume, something that I never had to do.
Never had done, didn’t know how, and, uh, struggling along with it. She came in, she didn’t have an appointment. She just popped into the office. She thought she had an appointment, and I’m looking through the appointment book, and her name’s not there. She says, what are you [00:03:00] doing? I said, well, you know, I want to give something back.
I want to teach, and I’m putting together a resume. She goes, oh, I teach. All the time that I knew her, the discussion never came up. I said, oh, well, what do you teach? She said, legal research and writing. I said, wow, that’s pretty tough stuff. She says, yeah, why don’t you come into my class as a guest lecturer and explain the process of having an assistant in the front of the office, what their requirements are, what they should do, how they should respond, how they should act, how they should greet clients and patients.
I said, sure, I’ll do that. Never done it before. And that was how our relationship began. But that was even from that. It was another six, eight months before either of us had the courage to think about inviting one or the other to dinner. But after that, we never left each other’s side. We were, that was it.
Dorothy: [00:04:00] Yeah.
Frank: We were attached at the hip.
Dorothy: Your, your descriptions of, of all of that time are just So touching, so dynamic. I mean, it’s, it’s almost, uh, you can almost feel how you felt about her. So fast forward us to her diagnosis.
Frank: In 2000, uh, we had just purchased our first home together. Decorating and doing all of the important things that are associated with creating, uh, a home and enjoyable space.
That December, she was scheduled for her mammogram, she put it off. And it was now March, three months after the fact, she finally calls and makes the appointment. And come to find out, there was a small spot that showed up on her test. So, she had to go to, uh, have a biopsy done. [00:05:00] Turns out that it was a very aggressive form of breast cancer.
And very tiny, less than the size of a pea. And it was explained to us that if she had gone in December, when she was scheduled, it’s very likely that the test would have missed it completely.
Dorothy: That’s important to know, yeah. You know, so many times women will blame themselves. Oh, I should have gone, I should have, you know.
I’m so glad your healthcare professional explained some of that to you.
Frank: Yeah, so, and, you know, at that particular point, it was important. Because if she had, she would have died within a year. That’s how fast this thing was going. So I’m thankful, we were, the whole family was thankful, the fact that she had waited, because we wouldn’t have had the next four years together.
And they were quality years, Dorothy. They were the most wonderfully spent, [00:06:00] traumatic. Rollercoaster ride anyone could ever imagine because of the impact the insidiousness of this disease had on both of us, despite the fact that my wife is the one that had to fight it.
Dorothy: It is a family disease. Everybody is involved.
Everybody’s impacted.
Frank: Everybody, yes, everybody’s got their toe in it and from one level or another and accolades are there when there is success. Tests come back free of any cancer cells. You jump for joy and dance in the living rooms with socks on to rock and roll music like we did. And you just are ecstatic.
Dorothy: Of course, as a medical professional, you had to have some concerns that someone else might not, that someone wasn’t in this field.
Frank: Yes, sometimes doctors make the worst patients. [00:07:00] Um, you know, our knowledge base is so extensive that. We get on our own way. And as a husband, that only added to the frustration.
Because, growing up, uh, you know, I have to tell, if there are any husbands out there listening, know that, uh, number one, you’re not alone. Number two, uh, you’re living in a world, in two different worlds, so one foot’s in one and one foot’s in the other. One’s in the, in the upbringing that you had as coming up.
And then the other one is in the world of breast cancer. Your professional world is in between. That’s the position you either go to one side or the other, any given time of the day. But [00:08:00] as a husband who is brought up in a patriarchal environment, your dad, your uncles, your grandparents, your grandfather specifically are your mentors.
They teach you by example. It’s not that they stand there and say, You gotta do this, you gotta do this, you gotta do this. That’s not the case. They just do it and look at you and you kind of go, okay, it’s a process of absorption. But when breast cancer enters the equation, all of that stoicism, having answers, being protective of family goes right out the window.
Dorothy has no bearing, has no. sense of, uh, meat to which you can grab hold of [00:09:00] and use, you’re, you know, left hopeless.
Dorothy: It’s something you can’t fix.
Frank: No, no, no. No, it’s interesting you say that because as a physician that’s what you do.
Dorothy: That’s right.
Frank: That’s your mindset.
Dorothy: Right.
Frank: And as a husband you think the same way.
Dorothy: Yes.
Frank: You know, it’s like. We can do this. Now, you’re saying we because you’re in a partnership.
Dorothy: Right.
Frank: You’re a couple, but you know that it’s your wife’s body that is, that is doing, is in the warfare. And you’re there as, as a supportive element. But, uh, yeah, all of that. Previous upbringing and training goes right out the window.
Dorothy: And you know, you talk in your book about how you and Judith, Judith started journaling. Now that’s very unusual for a man also. But how, was she already journaling and [00:10:00] you, you started with her or what?
Frank: No, that’s a, that’s a very good question, Dorothy. Because you know, women when they’re younger they do diaries.
Dorothy: Mm hmm.
Frank: Now, that’s an old term. That’s in our generation.
Dorothy: Yes.
Frank: Currently, uh, the word journaling has taken, uh, a front seat because it has been linked to means of understanding things by writing them down. It was the offer from hospice, when I went to group counseling for hospice, they said start a journal.
I had no idea. That was, I had already done it, Judith and I were doing it already, but it was interesting that they reinforced it.
Dorothy: Right.
Frank: After she had passed away. But Judith and I made it. decision because despite the fact that we were very vocal, very [00:11:00] verbally connected, we could easily carry on our emotional conversation with intent and with purpose.
And it was Judah’s idea. Because I was always, I would have hesitation. I’m a man, I’m a caveman. You do the things you do. Yeah.
Dorothy: You do the things you do. Right.
Frank: And she said, well, listen, why don’t we start a journal? Because then we can look back. Now, she was being proactive in a positive sense, that we could look back at those things that we accomplished together, that we had contributed to as a couple to overcome this challenge.
Dorothy: Now, wait, did y’all do this together? I mean, it was in one book or each of you did it?
Frank: Oh, no, no. It was two separate books.
Dorothy: Okay.
Frank: We didn’t want to overlaps. each [00:12:00] other’s thoughts.
Dorothy: Or influence, or whatever, right?
Frank: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, she just jumped right in. Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, we’ll have our meeting on Saturday when we have a little pick a pick a.
Now, that’s a little side joke, uh, not really, a little side story. Things that we would do, uh, on a weekend is that we would have a picnic in the living room. Put the blanket on the floor and a picnic basket and dishes and a bottle of wine and sausage and cheese and peppers and whatever it is that we wanted.
And it was pick a pick. You pick something and you eat it. Listen to rock and roll or Beethoven or Pavarotti. It didn’t matter. Just part of our time together. But that was when we would get together. to say, you know, I was thinking about this and I was thinking about did, did this come to Europe? Did you happen to think about this?[00:13:00]
Well, my book was empty. I could not. I, I, I, I mean, yes, I’m an artist, I sculpt, I’ll draw, and that’s how it took, it’s what I had to do in order to break through the wall to get what was going on in here to come through my head to come out in my hands and get on paper. So I doodled, I would draw, and it was like a couple of weeks, and you know.
So, Francesco. What do you got? Go, here you go. And she goes, what’s that? I said, well, that’s you, that’s me, that’s Natasha, that’s Nick, that’s Eleni, that’s John. And she goes, well, that’s like the stick figure family. And I said, yeah, well, you know, I got to start somewhere. [00:14:00] But, after a while, Dorothy It was like the floodgates.
Everything and anything that I could possibly think of, feel, was being poured out onto those pages.
Dorothy: And I will tell you the parts, excuse me, the parts you shared, especially after she passed away, were so raw, it was almost hard to read it. And I say that in the kindest way, because that was amazing to me, how you could touch into those emotions.
As a man, and I’m not, you know what I’m saying, but those were heavy duty, here’s how you’re going to feel to someone else that may be in your position.
Frank: What went into the book is actually the lighter.
Dorothy: I suspected, yes, uh huh.
Frank: If I had [00:15:00] handed you my journal, The three books that I had used in the first two years, and I’m not speaking about, I mean, I use two journals currently, I mean, not, not this thickness.
I’m talking, you know, like that, the black sketch type books that you can pick up at Books a Million. Yeah. Three of those in 18 months.
Dorothy: Wow.
Frank: Um, and now currently I have. I have two. I have this one that I just showed you. That’s more like my, um, quick note. And then I have another one that I use my fountain pen for.
When I’m sitting quietly and in a state of, uh, I wouldn’t say meditation, but definitely one of a [00:16:00] calmed mind.
Dorothy: But now you did not really intend for your story to be shared with everyone when you were journaling. Those were words for you.
Frank: Uh, yes, my journals were words for me, um, and they should be.
Dorothy: Yes.
Frank: That’s, you know, that’s like a per, like a woman’s diary. That’s their world.
Dorothy: Mm hmm.
Frank: My journal was my world. However, the, the statement I made in relationship to hospice. Granted, Hospice is a wonderful organization. They provide an amazing environment of support for family members. That said, as a husband going to the group counseling session, when I walked into that room, there [00:17:00] wasn’t another single husband there who had lost his wife to breast cancer.
Dorothy: Really?
Frank: And, I raised that question. Um, now I was looking for help, you know?
Dorothy: Right.
Frank: At that particular point in time it was, you know, dragging my feet. I felt like I was walking in the waves of an ocean up to my knees, you know, you trudging along and struggling. But what I realized is that Because of my upbringing, because of the stoicism, because of the male stigma, there wasn’t another man that was going to show up for me to feel a kinship or a bonding or an opportunity to share what was going on in my heart.
with another male husband [00:18:00] who’s lost their wife. At that point, I decided that I was going to put the journals to a book. And I did by 2007. When I completed the sale to Bermuda, the book I had written, and it was based on my journals. All of my journaling and that particular point in time I realized I can’t do this, this, this isn’t going to work.
So I put it in what I call deep storage. Out of sight, out of mind. It’s like somebody who would procrastinate, you know, I just, but I just jammed it down there and forgot all about it until 2019. Now we’re talking, what, 15, 16 years, maybe more. Something happened and the first book I wrote, which was called The Best Ships, was based on this, the first [00:19:00] story and journaling aspect.
And that was just the sale and the trials and tribulations to get to Bermuda and back and raise money for breast cancer awareness. That’s what that book was all about. But it was, I was giving, I was doing my readers a disservice in writing the book, that one. They deserve to know the whole story.
Dorothy: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Frank: Despite the, the trauma, despite the morose level of writing that existed in the original journals. It needed to be diluted in a sense, or at least picked apart and touched upon in a manner of that told the story to allow other husbands to recognize and understand that they are truly not alone, that there is another human being out there, another husband who [00:20:00] is experiencing.
The level of loss and hopelessness and helplessness and dismay and sorrow that they’re feeling.
Dorothy: And you definitely included all of that in your book. Now go back a minute to this selling, you know, that was one of your promises. Yes. Just share that with us about your promises to Judas about what you were going to do.
Frank: If there are a couple who unders— anyone who’s in a situation where a partner is In a process of passing or ill in a, with a disease entity that is eventually going to take them away. Anticipatory grief is, is something that it, it can be detrimental to the caregiver. [00:21:00] Also to the person who’s ill. However, you get together as a couple and you create what is called Uh, end of life wishes.
And for Judith, that was a list like a child would send to Santa Claus. And I loved her for it. I, I mean, I had, I, I, I added to it. I was like, oh, why don’t we, I’ll do this. So, it was an accumulation of things that we loved to do together. And that was, one of them was sailing. And we wanted to give something back to the Massey Cancer Center and the Dalton Clinic at the MCV Hospital in Richmond, Virginia to help breast cancer awareness and in donation.
But we thought of [00:22:00] offering sailing for patients. and their husbands to get them out of that particular environment to feel the breeze and freeness of being on the water on their face. And it was a good idea, but the ramifications were legal. Then Judas said, no, there’s, there’s some things there that, that won’t work.
So eventually it came down to Uh, my making a solo sale to Bermuda to raise the funds for breast cancer awareness. And I did it as a testament and a celebration of Judah’s life, her strength and her dignity and her intensity and as not only a wife and mother. Human being, but as a teacher and the respect that she had for students.
They were, they [00:23:00] were little chiclets.
Dorothy: Yes.
Frank: She was a mother hen and she took care of those individuals, uh, supporting them, mentoring them, providing them with opportunities for jobs in legal offices or medical assistance or anything like that because she, she worked for a career college in, in Virginia.
And I did also, she got me a job as an adjunct faculty member there and I taught. Anatomy, physiology, critical thinking, and so.
Dorothy: So your book is A Promise Made, A Promise Kept, A Husband’s Journey Through Breast Cancer Through Journaling. Even the title of this is like intriguing, because you had your own journey to go through through this whole thing, and you were very clear how journaling helped you.
Frank: Oh, it was immensely. Uh, beneficial and it’s something any, I don’t, it doesn’t matter if you have a [00:24:00] family member who’s ill or not. I think it’s something that we should all be doing on a regular basis because it takes you out of the general negativity that we’re exposed to on a daily basis.
Dorothy: Oh, absolutely.
Frank: And provides an opportunity for positivity in your life.
Dorothy: And you know, Frank, one of the things that, that occurred to me as I was reading was keeping that promise. Did that ever seem like a extra burden as you were going through all these other emotions?
Frank: In 2006, I would say yes, because when I got my butt handed to me by Mother Nature, Um, I was ready to give up and I was saying to myself, you know, Dallin, I love you dearly, but you’re, you’re killing me.
Um, you know, uh, but it was Mike, my different Mike, uh, God bless him. He’s a brother from another mother. He, uh, knocked some sense into me, and he pointed a finger in my [00:25:00] nose, and he said, you know, I didn’t know Judith, but I know her from our conversations, and you made a promise, and I’m not gonna let you get away with it.
Putting your tail between your cheeks and running away.
Dorothy: Wow.
Frank: And, um, we made the, we made, I gave him an opportunity and I told him you can sail with me to Bermuda or from Bermuda, but you can’t go both ways. You can choose one or the other because I made a promise to her and it was supposed to be a solo sail.
Dorothy: Mm hmm.
Frank: And, uh, he said, okay, well, I’ll go with you from Virginia to Bermuda. And we did. Spent nine days there, traveled around the island, took a lot of photos, had a a wonderful time. He, he flew back and, uh, a couple of days later I sailed home.
Dorothy: And there has to been, have been a, a huge moment of completion.
When you did all that, I mean, did you feel like she was looking down at you and going, okay, [00:26:00] Frank, you did it. Thanks.
Frank: Yeah, but there was still some incon incompleteness, um, because there, Judith had chosen to be cremated . So I got little prayer vessels and put some of her ashes in it and gave it to all the members of the family and friends.
And she wanted her ashes spread in St. George’s Harbor, Bermuda. Uh, and Chaco Canyon, New Mexico, where we used to spend weekends. We would go camping there at the time we were living in Albuquerque. And I wasn’t able to complete that aspect of my promise until 2019, when I finally had an opportunity to get back out to the Southwest.
Dorothy: How interesting. So Frank, you’ve already shared with us that you want husbands to know this is their journey too, that they’re not alone, that [00:27:00] they certainly need to find a way to express those emotions. Certainly didn’t make you any less of a man. Those are such strong messages for a man.
Frank: You know, it’s important because the book really reflects layers of acceptance.
Dorothy: Yes.
Frank: For grief, for despair. It offers the readers a view into my journey, especially husband. Think about what you’re consuming. That’s either positive or negative. Is it feeding your soul? Or is it adding calories? to your grief and sorrow. And I prefer to think of it in terms of feeding your soul.
Dorothy: Mm hmm.
Frank: And when you’re, when you think about thoughtfulness and taking attitudes and moving forward, because grief doesn’t go away.
Dorothy: Yeah.
Frank: It stays with you. You just have layers of it. Right. So remember those moments that brought [00:28:00] laughter and warmth to your relationship. And use them as the food for your soul, because it’s going to be those little elements that are going to carry, not only carry you forward, but uplift your spirit.
It’s like smiling at someone. If you smile at someone, they’re going to smile back. And what you just did is you touched another person’s soul.
Dorothy: Right.
Frank: And then they’re going to turn around and touch somebody else’s soul. So, it’s a, it’s a pay it forward attitude, and that’s the one that we should all have to begin with.
Dorothy: Well, it certainly makes life a lot more easy.
Frank: Yes, it does.
Dorothy: And it, and it, it is like, just like you said, that’s the best, uh, way of putting it I’ve ever heard, and so wise. So wise, Frank. You know, one of my questions for you, do you think this journey of grief will ever be over? And I think you’ve told us well.
Not really, but there’s different layers. [00:29:00] That’s, that’s an important message for people to hear. And you’re this far out, you’re a long ways out from that time. So the book is A Promise Made, A Promise Kept, A Husband’s Journey Through Breast Cancer Through Journaling. And I do believe that anyone who is in the same position Needs to take a look at this book, needs to hear that male perspective, because it can be just as profound, devastating, real, raw, as anything that we ever go through, and being able to write about it makes a difference.
Frank: Yes, and it’s the stepping stone at this particular point in time for me, because I’m doing um, A lot more speaking.
Dorothy: Right.
Frank: And I’m writing another book that I’m now fourth chapter in and should be ready, uh, in February.
Dorothy: So appreciate you joining me today. So appreciate you sharing this, [00:30:00] this incredible side of your life and yourself.
Men are not usually easy with that, and you certainly have shown us how it can help. I know our listeners will so enjoy hearing this and, uh, we appreciate you coming on and, uh, hope to talk to you again soon.
Frank: Thank you so much, Dorothy. I’m very grateful for the opportunity. Absolutely. I wish you and your listeners blessings in health and I look forward to.
Having another conversation with you in the future sometime.
Dorothy: So that wraps it up for today. And don’t forget, we’re doing a episode every single day. You’re gonna get your daily dose of, Let’s Talk About Your Breasts. During the month of October.
Post-Credits: October’s the month of pink, and for The Rose, a breast center of excellence. That means we’ll be airing podcasts every day in October to celebrate breast cancer awareness month. We’ll be sharing everything from bikers writing for breast cancer to areola tattoos. Be sure to share with family and friends because there’s a little something for everyone to find out ways to help [00:31:00] the rose.
Visit our website at therose.org. Remember, self care is not selfish. It’s essential.
