Dorothy: [00:00:00] What happens when your best friend has breast cancer, and that best friend happens to be your mother? Today, you’ll hear the story of Matt Wallace. Matt’s a writer and a healthcare IT professional. He’s also the son of The Rose’s COO, Jessica Duckworth. And we featured her in episode 12 of season 1. Matt opens up about balancing the support of his mother through her treatment while managing his own emotional journey.
He shines a light on the significance of being present for loved ones, not just in health, but through the trials of illness. And his story serves as another reminder that breast cancer affects the entire family. I think it’s going to be the gift he gave his mom that will move you to tears.
Please consider sharing this episode with your family and friends. At therose.org. Your action may save the life of an uninsured woman[00:01:00]
Let’s Talk About Your Breast, a different kind of podcast presented to you by The Rose the breast center of excellence and a texas treasure. You’re going to hear frank discussions about tough topics and you’re going to learn why knowing about your breast could save your life.
So Matt, thank you so much for being with us today. This is just a delight to have you here. And, you know, as I was looking at your bio and the things that you’ve done, how long have you been writing?
Matt: Oh, my, my whole life. Um, I remember distinctly probably third grade. Um, I just really fell in love with books and stories and storytelling.
And I started writing around then. I, I finished my first novel, um, when I was 24, 23, 24. And so far I’ve, I’ve written nine and several short stories, novellas, stuff like that. So my, my whole [00:02:00] life really.
Dorothy: Well now, and your mother is Jessica Duckworth, who works for The Rose, she’s our COO, so this is part of how we know you, but she describes you as a horror writer and a children’s book writer.
How can you go from one extreme to the other?
Matt: That is a, that’s a great question. Um, I write a lot of, as you mentioned, horror, fantasy, so a lot of dark fiction. Um, and I like getting out of my, my comfort zone. So being able to write a children’s story sometimes just kind of takes me out of that headspace that, you know, it’s not fun to be in 24/7.
So. Yeah. Um, and I have a sister that’s, uh, 11 years old. I’m 29. And it’s very important to me that she kind of look up to me as a, a role model and, and whatnot. And I want her to be interested in reading and writing. So I, I kind of wrote a lot of those children’s things for her, um, for her to read and enjoy and kind of get an interest in those things.
[00:03:00] And, um, yeah.
Dorothy: Oh, interesting. And, and you’re actually a healthcare IT person. You, you are the VP of operations?
Matt: Yes, ma’am. The VP of operations for MD EMR systems. Um, we do a lot of the EMR medical record services. So if, uh, a hospital is transitioning from one medical record system to another, we’ll move that data. Or a lot of times, um, hospitals won’t want to take every single bit of records going back 20-25 years. So we can archive that so they can still retain it for legal purposes, but they don’t have to have it in their, in their system.
Dorothy: So, Matt, we are going to be talking about your experience as your mother was diagnosed with breast cancer. And I think it’s important for our listeners to know you had a lot of years that it was just you and your mom.
Matt: Yes, ma’am. Um, my mother had me when she was very young, uh, high school age. [00:04:00] You know, she took that as a, you know, a badge of honor, really, and, and worked five jobs at one time, you know, going to school for, uh, radiology, and really, you know, we, we have a very strong bond and connection. Um, she met my stepfather when I was five.
So for those first several years, you know, it was just the two of us and yeah, we formed a very strong bond and you know, it’s been me and her for a long time.
Dorothy: So go back to the day, the moment when she had to tell the family that she was definitely diagnosed with breast cancer. What, where were you? What did she say?
How did—
Matt: Um, yeah, that was a very. Very difficult day, um, for me and everyone, uh, involved. I remember she, I was at work. I work with, um, my father and we, we have a home [00:05:00] office. So we work, I work out of my parents house. My mother came home from work early that day, which is odd. She puts in a lot of hours. Her and my dad disappeared for a while, and I know now that that’s when she was telling him that she got her diagnosis, and I was in our office, uh, working, and she came in to, uh, to tell me, and, um, I could tell when, when she came into the room that something wasn’t, something wasn’t right, and my mind immediately went to, you know, my grandparents or some, you know, something had happened and she was going to give me some bad news about a different family member.
I didn’t at all see, you know, what, what she was going to tell me. And, um, before she could give me the news, she started crying before she could get it out. And the, the way that our office is [00:06:00] set up, I, you know, there’s a long, it was supposed to be when my parents built the house, a third car garage. And so it was transitioned into the office.
And so there’s a long hallway that you can see down into the other house. And I looked over and I could see my dad at the end of that hallway. And, um, he, uh, he was crying and, um, that was hard for me to see my, my parents. They’re, they’re not very emotional people. So, so to see, uh, him, him crying and my mom crying and. I, uh, it was, it was, it was hard. It was hard. And she told me that and I, I got up and, and hugged her and I, I didn’t know what to say. You know, it was kind of a numb feeling, uh, and, um, yeah, we just, we hugged and she tried to tell me, you know, my mom’s a very, uh, [00:07:00] analytical thinker. So her trying to tell me all the details and all I heard was, you know, she, I have cancer and, um. So, I, you know, I couldn’t drink in any of those facts or anything like that and my, my big thing was trying to keep my emotions, uh, from getting to me because, uh, I needed to be strong for her and that was all I cared about or thought about in that moment and, um, yeah, yeah.
Dorothy: So, I know it was a little while before she told Brooklyn, your sister. And how did you handle being around her, knowing this before she knew?
Matt: I, I tried to make sure nothing, nothing changed. Um, You know, she at this time was seven, eight years [00:08:00] old. So, you know, she wasn’t really, um, attentive to, you know, things being off, you know, she just wanted to play, you know, be, be a little kid.
And it was not, you know, not changing any routine with her playing with her. Like I always do things like that. And I think telling her was the hardest part for my parents because, you know, I’m, uh, 24, 25 at this time. And, uh, so, I mean, I can accept that information and process it. She doesn’t really know what cancer means at her age. So trying to explain to her and make her grasp the full weight of what was happening, um, that’s probably what was hardest for, for them.
Dorothy: And this was, of course, during the time of COVID and family could not go and be with her as she was doing chemotherapy or the surgeries, [00:09:00] so I’m just wondering, go back to when you first heard.
How long did it take you to really process it? How long before you could get out of that fog of what’s going on here?
Matt: Um, probably when they finally had a treatment plan. Um, there was a plan of action, you know, Hey, these are the steps we need to take to get you better. And that was something to, to kind of wrap your head around.
There’s a timeline associated with that. Of course that never goes to plan, right? But you had milestones, goalposts, Hey, we knew who your doctor is going to be. Um, you can put some, a plan of action in place on, you know, how we’re going to move forward before that. But you know, you have all of those questions about.
You know, what’s going to happen to mom, uh, what’s this look like? Her being who she is and working in this field, it was my hope that [00:10:00] she kind of knew those steps. You know, she kind of had an understanding of how things might play out and that might be helpful for her. But talking to her, she said, you know, when, when you’re on the patient side of the desk, It’s a completely different, you know, all that planning and training and knowledge goes out the window and it’s, it’s a completely, you know, she said herself it, it changed her whole perspective on everything.
Dorothy: So I’m curious, Matt. I’ve talked to several husbands of, um, breast cancer survivors. I’ve never talked to a son. So, and this is, I’m not trying to stereotype you or put you in anything, but what I hear from the, the husbands is, I wanted to fix it. Did you feel that way as a son? You wanted to fix things for her or did you just feel like there was nothing you could do during that time?
Matt: Uh, I wouldn’t say I, you know, I want to fix it or, [00:11:00] um, it was more of that, you know, there’s nothing I can really do, but be there for her type of thing. Uh, doctors are very good at what they do. And, you know, that’s, that’s, you know, all I can do is be her shoulder and be there to talk to her and uplift her.
And, um, kind of going back to my writing, she, like you said, we couldn’t be there for her cause this is COVID time. So every time she had a treatment, I wrote a story that week for her to take with her and read while she was getting treatment. And at the end of everything, I collected it and kind of gave it to her.
And, um, so she has all those collected and stuff, but that was my way of trying to kind of be, “Hey, this is what I can do. I can, uh, what do I do? I write. So I’ll write for her and give her something to take with her so she can have her mind. off of off of this horrible thing.”
Dorothy: Oh, that’s an excellent idea.
I’ve never [00:12:00] heard anyone that did that. That was brilliant, really, because you were there.
Matt: Right.
Dorothy: In your writing.
Matt: Right.
Dorothy: Goodness. Yeah. So in your family, who, who had to be the strongest one in your mind?
Matt: In my mind, I, I think my father, just because of how much, you know, you know, my mother, she’s very, uh, Tries to be strong and fight through things and my father having to step up and say, “Hey, you know, you need to recover and rest and taking care of,” like I said, my sister was seven at this time and stepping in to kind of take care of her so that my mom can do what she needed to do with treatment and, um, helping me get through things.
Cause like I said, my main thing was trying to stay strong for my mom. So. I, I wanted to talk to her and help her, but not necessarily burden her with what I’m dealing with. So him [00:13:00] being there for me to kind of go through this together and then, you know, taking care of my seven year old sister, who, as I mentioned, can’t really grasp exactly what’s going on with mom.
Um, so my father, I would say, and kind of, he played mediator, I would say with rest of the family, because, um, we have a very close knit family, but that also means it’s at times an overbearing family. Right? So always having questions. “Hey, what’s, what’s going on with Jessica? What just, what’s she doing? How’s this going?”
And filtering all those questions through him so that she doesn’t have to deal with that and answer with that. Um, because we want her just focused on her and not worrying about everyone else. Because she is a very caring person that’s more worried about how other people are doing. So, him lifting that burden so that she didn’t have to.
Dorothy: Right. Um, you’re describing your mother very well. She, uh, she always has other people’s interest in [00:14:00] mind. You’ll never hear her really complaining or, you know, giving into her own emotions. It’s always, you know, she’s the calm one. She’s the one that’s going to get us, honestly, get us through any problem we have here at The Rose.
You know, I have no worries. I just know she’ll figure it out because that’s the way she is. Just really, really, she’s a very special person in the life of The Rose.
Matt: Right.
Dorothy: I don’t have to tell you that.
Matt: She’s good at what she does because she cares about what she does and um, and everyone involved. So that’s, that’s my mom.
Dorothy: Yeah, so does she, when you said her whole perspective changed, do you, have you seen that? Have you actually heard her talk differently, tell stories differently?
Matt: I would say yes, being more family centric. Um, for her, I would say everybody, it was kind of a, a wake up call [00:15:00] situation on, um, not that the, I mean, we’re very close already, but more of a, you see time differently.
Um, I think she was 41 at this time, so it’s the last thing you would have expected, you know? Uh, so just truly understanding, “Hey, this could happen to anyone at any time and, you You know, not that we don’t take family for granted, but making more of a conscious effort to be in each other’s lives more than we are.”
And I would say that that’s probably how it’s reflected the most.
Dorothy: And you know, when I hear her talking with different people, um, and she often talks to breast cancer survivors, she doesn’t lead with it. You know, she listens to where they are, what their questions are, where, where their concerns are. And then she says, well.
I was there, too, and it, you can watch the whole conversation shift, you know, because no matter what, [00:16:00] unless you’ve been there, it’s, you can’t imagine, and it’s the same for a family member, unless you’ve been the family member who’s experienced it, you can’t imagine what they’re going through, and it’s so hard sometimes to talk to people or to know what to say or that kind of thing. You know, so in, in that, during that time, can you remember any person, dad, whomever that said something to you that you really held on to, gave you some support?
Matt: I remember in the days after, you know, within, within a day, within hours of, Um, kind of everyone knowing the news.
My uncle Randy called me and we talked for quite a while, um, about stuff and just him letting me know that, Hey, this is going on with your mom, but it’s also going on with you. And if you ever [00:17:00] need to talk to anybody, you know, just you’re in people’s prayers and don’t, don’t, don’t. You know, feel, feel like you can reach out. It’s not a burden that you have to take on. And so my Uncle Randy in that conversation helped, helped me a lot.
Dorothy: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And, and as a caregiver, which you were during that time, uh, I’ve learned over this last year and a half of doing this show that oftentimes there’s no attention there.
Matt: Mm hmm.
Dorothy: You know, it’s, it, of course, is always on the patient.
Matt: Right.
Dorothy: But the caregivers can feel lonely or hurt or, you know, just feel that helplessness and, and certainly need to be addressed to need, need to have that support just as much as, as the patient. Yeah.
Matt: Right. Um, I think that that’s a big, this experience had taught me, I mean, before, when I think of Uh, cancer, I think of it [00:18:00] as being an isolating thing that really affects one person.
And that’s just, you know, that’s not the case. There’s so many people, you know, even, not even home life, you know, her colleagues and people that she works with caring about her as well and thinking about her and it’s just this whole web of people that we all touch and interact with that really care about us a lot.
And, um, you know, it’s, uh, It, like I said, it is hard when you’re really focused on that person and not yourself. And then it all kind of comes out in, in, in your thoughts and whatnot.
Dorothy: Yeah. Suddenly you’re overwhelmed or you’re—
Matt: Right.
Dorothy: Yeah. But you know, that’s interesting, Matt, because we often talk about it being a family.
Uh, disease, affair, you know, something the family goes through. But you’re describing all those circles of people that are around families. They’re also dealing with it at some level.
Matt: Right.
Dorothy: And that’s [00:19:00] a really interesting way of thinking about it. Every person in those circles has some other part of them that’s hurting.
Matt: Right.
Dorothy: Scared.
Matt: Mm hmm.
Dorothy: Worried.
Matt: Yeah. Mm hmm.
Dorothy: Did you ever have a time when you were Worried worried? Did you ever have a time you didn’t think she would make it?
Matt: I would I would say probably that the hardest part was like I said those first couple of before where there was a plan in place.
Dorothy: Mm hmm.
Matt: And then it just seemed like Every time she was making progress, it was like one step forward, two steps back kind of thing.
I think initially she got diagnosed in, in May. Her treatment started in June. And that initial plan I was talking about had her being done around October. You know, they had winter trips that they had already planned that they weren’t canceling because, hey, we’re going to be done. And then, oh, we’ve seen this new thing.
Um, we have to do this new round of [00:20:00] treatments. And it ended up well. Was originally a five to six month thing ended up being two years.
Dorothy: Yes. Yes. She had a real Real hard time with that. Yes.
Matt: Right So, I mean, I think it was just that overwhelming sense of “are we gonna get out of this?” Kind of thing where it’s like “hey, you see the finish line and then oh someone’s moved it.” The XYZ in the distance and really dealing with that I I Don’t know that I ever let myself go to To what, to where you referenced, is she going to make it, you know, I’ve tried to stay optimistic and I didn’t want to go there because I didn’t want her to go there, you know, so, uh, yeah.
Dorothy: Well, and you know, certainly in her work here, there were times I was really worried because you know, her, her treatment was rough.
Matt: Yes, it was.
Dorothy: And, and we don’t like to. You know, dwell on that a lot, but this show is meant to be [00:21:00] sure people understand what happens. And that it’s not always, oh, I just had treatment and I’m well. You know, there’s a lot of things that go on during that time.
Matt: As I mentioned in the start of our conversation, I, I work at my parents house.
So I got to see my mom on those days after her treatment, when she was going through all of that at home. Um, cause I work there, so I’m there, I’m trying to help her in every way that I can while she, you know, post, uh, chemo and, or those, those treatments and seeing her struggle on those days was, you know, the hardest and, um, it, it’s again, it’s another wrinkle that you just didn’t foresee.
You, you think that. The chemo is the hard part, right? Well, no, it’s the five, six days after that.
Dorothy: Yes.
Matt: That is just the, the brutal part that’s hard to watch.
Dorothy: I’ve watched your mother and I’ve [00:22:00] watched your, and, and the interaction you have. Did y’all ever have a time when you moved to laughter or teasing or anything like that just to get through the time?
Matt: Um, I would say that that’s just our natural relationship. I wouldn’t say it was like a conscious, “Hey, we’re trying to get through this together.” That’s just, uh, like I said, she had me very young. So you know, we’re only, um, you know, she, I grew up and we became friends more as well as son and mother. And so we do have a very close relationship that does go into those— laughter. Um.
Dorothy: Right. Well, I’ve, I’ve seen, she’d come in and tell us stories that she’s laughing at. I’m going, this is not funny. How do you find funniness in this? And she just says, you know, this is what’s going on. I mean, I think that’s the other quality of your mom that, you know, a lot of people can’t step back and [00:23:00] look at themselves and say, Oh, this is what happened.
I mean, it’s hard. It’s very hard, especially when you don’t feel good. And have so many unknowns and when did you start to feel like she’s done with the treatment? She’s ready to be recovered and go forward.
Matt: I would say, honestly, recently, uh, because she had to do a lot of post treatment medications that were also throwing things out of whack for her, you know, um, hot flashes, things like that, that just make it. We went on, uh. trip together in Chicago and she was struggling to, you know, go to a lot of places because her, her heart in the, um, was, you know, walking long distances and stuff and stuff like that from the medication. She’s recently off of that. So things are finally kind of getting back to normal. Um, but you know, [00:24:00] that, that’s the thing, that’s the, the biggest thing that I, um, I think I’ve, I learned or, uh, was just not the, my mom will often tell anyone that, that asks about this is like, cancer was the easy part.
The, all the stuff after that is, you know, what’s hard. Like I said, the treatment and the, the stuff that just follows you for a long time, months and years. And that, that was her biggest struggle. She was, she says.
Dorothy: And now you’ve alluded to this a couple of times, but are you different now? And if you had to say how are you different, what would it be?
Matt: I would, I would say in, in that valuing my family a lot more, um, realizing, like I said, mom was 41. So just, Hey, we’ve got our whole lives ahead of us. Well, do we, you know, and just kind of in appreciating now and what we have. [00:25:00] And, um. I’m, take after my mother in a lot of ways. One of those is being a workaholic.
You know, I got my first job when I was 16. And when I was in college, I had a full school schedule plus three jobs. And there were many months where I worked seven days a week at these jobs. And even now with my writing, I write several hours a day, seven days a week. Plus, you know, my, my work. So taking a step back from all that, and realizing, hey, you need to make a conscious effort to be, you know, um, here for these holidays and, and these family get togethers and stuff.
And you can say no to, uh, but just as an example, um, before my current job, I worked at a jewelry store for several years while I was in college. And even after I got my full time job that I have now, I. still went [00:26:00] back every holiday to work. And that first year that my mother, um, had cancer and she was going through treatment, they called me to come back and I told them, no, and I haven’t been back since because you know what?
I want to enjoy the holidays with my family and not be working every day. Um, so that’s an example of just kind of how my perspectives change where, Hey, you don’t have to Go, go, go. You can take a step back and enjoy your people.
Dorothy: That’s a good example. That’s a good, good way of, uh, sharing how we do change our values change.
Matt: Right.
Dorothy: Now you were married during this time, I mean, newly married, right?
Matt: Yes ma’am. Um, my mother told us about the diagnosis in May. I got married in February. So I got married February 23rd. Um, and then the week after is when all the COVID shutdown happened. So we got back from our honeymoon and then immediately, like within two days, [00:27:00] everything was shut down.
And so I got married, I was dealing with COVID and again in this time in May, nothing, you know, restaurants weren’t even opened yet. And then mom tells us about this. So a lot of life changes and stuff going on on top of that. And then, um, yeah.
Dorothy: And now that, that you are married and you have a, a stepdaughter, right?
Matt: Yes, ma’am.
Dorothy: And will someday have children of your own. Do you ever worry about their future when it comes to something like breast cancer?
Matt: I do. I do. And, um, you know, the, uh, another thing, a lot, something I didn’t know is a lot of the, um, Um, breast cancer, you know, there’s different strains and one of those can be, um, um, um, so what I’m looking for starts with a G.
Dorothy: Family related.
Matt: Right.
Dorothy: Yeah.
Matt: Um, and so, you know, I know my mom, when this happened, her biggest worry [00:28:00] was not necessarily herself, but you know, could her daughter get this and thinking about, you know, stuff like that, is that something that my sister’s going to have to worry about. When she grows up, there is that on my, on my wife’s side.
So thinking about, Hey, when my wife, you know, or not, not even when she gets older to, you know, now it could happen. Um, and then same thing with our daughter. Um, yes, that’s something that I try not to think about, but can’t help not think about and worry about. It’s just another reminder to enjoy today.
Dorothy: Matt, you’ve given us so many, uh, thoughtful ways that this has impacted you and, and the things that you’ve changed. And do you feel like you can really mentor somebody else or, help them through it if they were a young man with a mother going through breast cancer?
Matt: I would say my advice would be it’s it’s everyone’s [00:29:00] own journey and Yes, I could mentor someone and help them through that but at the end of the day like, you know No cancer is the same.
No experience is the same and the way that I would mentor someone is kind of You know, you need to deal with something like this in your way and don’t do something you think, don’t act the way you think other people would want you to act kind of way. You know, feel what you feel. Don’t put up a wall because, you know, some, you don’t think that you should be showing these emotions and stuff, you know what I mean?
Dorothy: Yeah. That’s, that’s hard no matter what.
Matt: Right.
Dorothy: Well, thank you so much for being with us today. It’s— it’s been great talking with you and of course we love your mom and uh, wish you well. If you’re writing four hours a day on top of everything else, you are a writer.
Matt: Yes, ma’am.
Dorothy: Wish you well in everything that [00:30:00] you have ahead of you.
Matt: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me and everything you guys do here at The Rose it’s really amazing.
Post-Credits: Thank you for joining us today on Let’s Talk About Your Breasts. This podcast is produced by Speke Podcasting and brought to you by The Rose. Visit therose.org to learn more about our organization, subscribe to our podcast, share episodes with friends and join the conversation on social media using #Let’sTalkAboutYourBreasts. We welcome your feedback and suggestions. Consider supporting The Rose. Your gift can make the difference to a person in need. Remember, self care is not selfish. It’s essential.
