Dorothy: [00:00:00] I don’t think I’ve ever been more excited or more frightened than the time that I got to interview Bill Boyce. Now this is a man that has argued cases in front of the Supreme Court and he’s here on Let’s Talk About Your Breast. But today he’s not talking about law or different issues that are facing our country. Today he’s talking about how you take care of your wife and how you get through breast cancer.
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Let’s Talk About Your Breast. A different kind of podcast presented to you by The Rose. The Breast Center of Excellence and a Texas treasure. You’re going to hear frank discussions about tough topics, [00:01:00] and you’re going to learn why knowing about your breast could save your life.
So Bill, thank you so much for being with us today. This is such a treat to have a spouse, caregiver, you know, someone who’s walked that journey with their wife and, uh, here to share with us today. I know this is an unusual experience for you, but, uh, we’re so happy to have you.
Bill: Well, thank you. I’m so pleased to be here.
Dorothy: Good. Bill, when did you, or did you know something was amiss with Maria?
Bill: We were proceeding along as normal and Maria went in for her annual mammogram and she got a notation that they wanted to come back and take a closer look, which is not unusual because she’d had, uh, false positives and closer looks, uh, and things like that, uh, in prior years.
So my initial [00:02:00] thought was, this is just another example of the doctors being super cautious and I’m glad they’re cautious. She’ll go in, she’ll get a further examination, she’ll be told everything is fine, and then we’ll get on down the road. Except, that’s not how it played out.
Dorothy: No. So, was that just kind of a, she says, I had my mammogram, but I’ve got to go back? I mean, was it just that kind of thing?
Bill: It was, and it, it felt, you know, not unusual. I mean, we’ve been through this drill before.
Dorothy: Yeah. So you go on to work and you’re not concerned. And then when, how did she tell you there is something they’re really concerned about?
Bill: Well, she had a follow up exam. And, uh, then, uh, the, the referral to MD Anderson pretty clearly indicated that it was, you know, not the ordinary, uh, situation that we had experienced before.
Dorothy: When did you recognize or did you know that her diagnosis of triple negative was especially concerning. [00:03:00]
Bill: When we had the sit down with our oncologist, Dr. Jennifer Litton. And I was not educated about the differentiations of types of breast cancer, but she explained what a diagnosis of triple negative meant, that it was more serious, that it was more aggressive, and with that in mind, then, you know, quickly became apparent to us that this was a much more serious situation than we had experienced in the past.
Dorothy: So you’re hearing her words, you’re hearing her description, the doctors. Where in your body did you feel it?
Bill: Uh, in my stomach. It’s kind of a tightening of the thought that, oh, this is not routine. And, you know, I also reached out. I have doctor friends and so I reached out to them and, you know, I asked them to kind of also explain it to me.
I, I do better [00:04:00] when things are explained to me multiple times so I can sort of absorb it. Talk to a doctor friend of mine and he gave me additional information and I understood, okay, this is, I don’t know that any, breast cancer diagnosis would be termed routine. It’s certainly not routine for the person who experiences it, but it, it was apparent to me that this was a more challenging diagnosis than perhaps I’d anticipated.
Dorothy: So from the get go, did you find yourself in a comforter’s role? Did you find yourself saying to her, it’s going to be all right, or were you just as worried or scared as she might have been?
Bill: Oh, Maria was comforting me more than I was comforting her.
Dorothy: I always wonder who’s more worried about who.
Bill: Absolutely. But, you know, the, the thing I kept coming back to in, in what I would say to Maria is that because you are proactive, because you are diligent about your mammograms, because you, [00:05:00] uh, have done this timely year after year, you have given yourself the best possible opportunity to beat this and to have the outcome, the good outcome that, that we want. And so we just come back to that. Hers was diagnosed extremely early and it was diagnosed extremely early because Maria has been, uh, very diligent about, uh, getting mammograms. That, uh, she had a, she had every advantage that you could hope for going into a situation like this. And, and she had that advantage because she had given it to herself.
Dorothy: Did you really feel like everything was going to turn out okay?
Bill: I hoped everything was going to turn out okay, but, uh, particularly starting the chemo process, I thought, man, this is going to be a long, process, And I know where we want to get to. Uh, and, you know, Dr. Litton, was very straightforward with us about the diagnosis and what the [00:06:00] plan was, uh, what would be done if the initial treatments worked and then what would be done if the initial treatments didn’t work. So I chose to believe that the initial treatments would work and they did.
Dorothy: How did you deal with telling your colleagues? I mean, did, was that something men normally share? My wife is having chemo or, how does that work?
Bill: After we had the diagnosis and we kind of had a, a time frame in, uh, front of us in terms of what the treatment was going to be with the stages of treatment, I did tell my work colleagues because I was going to be absent for a fair amount while things were going on and, and, you know, to a person, everybody could not have been more supportive and that didn’t surprise me at all. You know, I also had to, I felt like I needed to be upfront with the people I work with because there were some things that I was going to pass off to have other people handle while I was, addressing the more important and [00:07:00] more urgent things with Maria’s health care.
Dorothy: Was that an easy choice to make?
Bill: It was a straightforward choice. It’s, it’s, you know, I don’t mean to sound blasé about it, but, you know, lawyers view things in terms of, here’s our problem. What are we going to do about it? And that’s kind of a mode that I default into and so we have this very serious problem. What are we going to do about it? You know, step one, we’re going to get the best medical care that we can. Step two, we’re going to arrange everything else to make sure that there’s no impediments to getting the care, getting, uh, making sure that she stayed on schedule so that the, the chemo treatments were administered timely and, and we’re just gonna, we’re just gonna do it. What’s the statement? The, the, the only way out is through. So we went through.
Dorothy: And did you go with her to all of her [00:08:00] treatments or most of them?
Bill: Most of them. Um, um, there were one or two that I, I did not attend, but otherwise, uh, every Sunday morning we would go over to MD Anderson and it was, uh, it was actually a quieter time. That turned out to be a blessing to us to go on a Sunday. The place was not as busy. We go in early in the morning, she’d have her treatment, come back home, and not a wonderful Sunday, not one I’d recommend, but it certainly made the process easier.
Dorothy: So this is a little personal, but what did you do during the time she’s having her chemo? Did you entertain her? Did you just both read? Did you— this is something that I’ve heard so many different ways of handling, sitting with that person who’s having the chemo.
Bill: So Maria was mostly napping while the treatments were going on. So I watched the Astros and that was, which was a great distraction. But you know, I would read, you know, read things I was working [00:09:00] on. Um, Just sitting in the room and not doing anything was, would have been, uh, would have elevated the, the stress level of it. So, I’ve found ways to, to, you know, focus on other things. And, you know, the staff is so superb that they, um, you know, they took care of business and, and the, the, the treatment started on time.
They ended on time. They took great care of Maria. So, I, I’m just, uh, It was just present.
Dorothy: Present. But I know that meant a lot.
Bill: Watching the Astros.
Dorothy: Watching the Astros. Well, then it was normal. Right? Well, that’s good.
Absolutely. It’s
Bill: like our normal Sunday.
Dorothy: To have normal Sundays, yes.
Bill: Absolutely.
Dorothy: So did you ever see her fall into a depression or get worried or more than concerned at any stage?
Bill: I wouldn’t say depression. There, there were, you know, she had one instance. At the beginning of her treatment, where she had an adverse reaction to one of the medications. And that was frightening for [00:10:00] both of us. But again, the medical staff is there. As soon as she starts having the reaction, they swoop in. They administer the drugs that counteract it. And we’re back on track. Um, so that was unnerving.
Dorothy: And that’s a good way to think about it, to get through it. You see, you had some resources that many of our husbands might not have. And so, it’s so important for them to hear you had a very logical, step by step process to get through this time. I think that’s easier for some people to understand. You know, it’s not, what’s the word, it’s not like so, falling into this deep black hole. There, there are people have been through it. There’s things you can look for, get resources. So that, that is something we want to stress. That even if you’re the spouse who often feels like the outsider, there are resources for you, [00:11:00] and there’s people that will talk to you. Did you find any colleagues or friends or people that you just talked to during that time?
Bill: I did. I have some friends, several friends that I reached out to. One of my, uh, my college roommate, when I told him what the situation was, uh, he actually came down and visited and was a morale booster that way. Uh, I had other friends who were checking in on me, uh, periodically or, you know, you’d go out for a beer and just sort of decompress, uh, periodically. They were, they were great about it. Uh, I sort of, I sort of think of it, it’s, it’s like the, the mindset I tried to have was sort of at the risk of a cliche, sort of the Apollo 13 mindset. We got a bad problem. What are we going to do about it? Let’s, let’s, let’s work it. And one of the ways they did that was to reach out, you know, selectively. We weren’t broadcasting things, uh, and so forth, but, [00:12:00] you know, Maria with her very strong network of friends and, and, and me with key friends, we, we reached out and they, they, they supported us.
Dorothy: Boy, that is a gift.
Bill: Mm hmm. It sure is.
Dorothy: Any particular incident, like you said, your friend came down, I mean just came down, was going to be there with you physically, any other examples like that, that really meant a lot to you?
Bill: Uh, when Maria had, so her course of treatment was, uh, chemo, then, um, a lumpectomy, and then radiation, and so for the lumpectomy part of it, she had an early morning, uh, surgery scheduled, And one of our mutual friends from law school who lives in Houston, you know, showed up at the hospital with me, you know, at like 5:30 in the morning and, and sat, just sat and, you know, we didn’t have to converse about much.
It was just there and, uh, this was [00:13:00] gonna be the, the, the surgery and the, the, the biopsy and the result where we’d find out, you know, had the, had the cancer been confined, had it gotten into the lymph nodes and those sorts of things. So it was a pretty high stakes surgery. And, uh, um, I was nervous waiting for, to hear the doctor’s, uh, report of the results. And so our friend Bruce, he was just there.
Dorothy: Just there. That is such a message. You know, sometimes that’s all we have to do.
Bill: That’s all you have to do, just sitting there, in the waiting room, drinking coffee. That’s all, you know, that means more than anything else.
Dorothy: Anything else. Have you found yourself having to do that with a friend, a colleague, since you’ve been through this with Maria? Have you, has anyone else been diagnosed with anything that you had to be that friend.
Bill: Uh, I don’t know that I’ve played exactly that role, but we have had other circumstances where people that we know are coming into town for treatment, and [00:14:00] so, you know, we, uh, have, uh, invited them to stay in the garage apartment so they can work close to the medical center so that they can, you know, not have to deal with a hotel. They can come and go as they want. We’ve had a couple of instances where friends or family of friends have been in town for treatment and uh, that’s a, that’s a way to pay it forward.
Dorothy: It certainly is and I and I just want to stress on that because I know how much that meant in my own personal life when I had a friend going through and they they just needed a place to be. And like you said the hotels and different places can be so intimidating and you’ve got to think about all the other things. But when you’re in someone’s home, it’s kind of like a web of some kind that’s holding you, you know, just to get you through.
That’s, that’s really, that’s important. I hadn’t, hadn’t thought about that in a long time, but it’s a very important part of being that [00:15:00] caring person, caring friend. So did you, ever find yourself wanting to fix it?
Bill: Yes. Uh, the, one of the character traits of lawyers is you’re a control freak. And so being in an environment where you can’t control anything is stressful.
Uh, and being, you know, for me, I think for most people, being in a hospital environment is disorienting. I, I know my way around my workspace. I don’t know my way around a hospital space. And so it’s a disorienting experience.
Dorothy: Oh yeah.
Bill: And. You’re undergoing treatments and you’re given advice about, you know, we think this will work. If this doesn’t work, we’re going to do the next thing. It’s, it’s, it’s stressful. You want to, if you’re a, if you’re a control freak, this is a, a foreign and an unwelcome experience.
Dorothy: Well, and I think, I think it’s just a little trait [00:16:00] of, of husbands, of men. They want to fix things. You know, they don’t like it when they can’t, they don’t like it when they don’t have an answer. And there’s a lot of ifs in cancer. There’s an awful lot of if this, if that. She’s going through treatment. She’s having to deal with her body changes. She’s, has her own doubts, questions. Her own courage. Trying to find that. Did you, did you ever see a time when she got back to being the old Maria?
Bill: Oh, yeah. Uh, very much so. The, the, the first course of treatment that she had was the more, uh, challenging course. And so that Uh, kinda had her lying low for the, however long it took. It was, I think, four treatments over, over several weeks. Uh, once that was over, and the side effects of that kind of dissipated then the, the other treatments [00:17:00] while serious were not as, uh, tiring, not as much fatigue. And so, you know, she gradually emerged and got back to, you know, the, her, her fighting trim as I like to think of it. And then when her hair grew back, I knew she was, she was ready to, she was ready to rock and roll.
Dorothy: Yeah. Yeah.
Bill: Uh, and, and that was, that was another milestone of, of, you know, back to normal.
Dorothy: So, what, what future plans do you two have? What are you going to do now?
Bill: Well, we’re, we’re figuring that out. Um, uh, we’re, we’re doing more travel. Uh, we’ve got different projects that we’re involved in. Maria is, is, is throwing herself into advocacy, uh, on behalf of women with breast cancer. And that’s going to be her, her new mission. And so I think what we’re doing is looking for things for us to work on that are meaningful and supporting each other in doing that.
Dorothy: So [00:18:00] what advice do you have to some other husband that’s going to find himself in the same place you were?
Bill: Uh, again, at the risk of, of cliche, it’s, it’s to say, just take it one day at a time. The process will go, there’s going to be ups and downs. Focus on the immediate task, get it done, and then focus on the next task. That’s a, that’s a way for me to compartmentalize things and take it in small pieces so that I can, you know, handle it and it, it will get through, you’ll get through it that way. Or at least that’s, that’s what worked for me. If, if you get caught up in the big picture, oh, I’m, I don’t know what’s going to happen. And what about this? What about that? That’s for me, that was, um, not productive and it just increased anxiety and wasn’t helping anything. So I decided, you know, I’m going to focus on this coming Sunday. Here’s our schedule for Sunday. Here’s what we’re going to do. And that’s a way for me to [00:19:00] navigate it.
Dorothy: And sometimes it’s all we can do in life just look at that next thing to get through. Bill, thank you so much for being with us today I really appreciate your candidness and allowing us to see into this time in your life and Maria’s life and great advice. Great advice.
Bill: Well, thank you so much.
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