Dorothy: [00:00:00] I’m Dorothy Gibbons, CEO and co founder of The Rose, and I’m your host today on Let’s Talk About Your Breast. What if you had to hide your diagnosis to keep your business going? That’s exactly what Deborah Wallace did, a successful businesswoman and the owner of Barfield Photography. She has taken portraits of some of the most successful women in Texas, but when she was diagnosed with breast cancer, not once but twice, she hid it.
but she didn’t have that option when it was diagnosed a third time. Learn why this breast cancer survivor realized her work would suffer if clients knew she had breast cancer. Such has happened to others and she couldn’t afford to have it happen to her.
Let’s Talk About Your Breast, a different kind of podcast presented to you by The Rose. A breast center of excellence and a Texas treasure. You’re gonna hear frank discussions about tough topics, and you’re gonna learn why knowing about your breast could save your life. [00:01:00] Join us as we hear another story and we answer those tough questions that you may have.
Deborah, we’re gonna go right into your cancer experience, so here you are, a three time breast cancer survivor. And how, how was the third time finding that different than the first time?
Deborah: Well, the first time I found out I was 50, just turning 50. I’m now 65. So, the first time I caught it very early with, um, a mammogram.
The, not a regular mammogram, but a more advanced mammogram.
Dorothy: The 3D.
Deborah: Yes, the 3D. And, there’s just, the spot was just small, super small, like a. like, so we caught it very early. And so I didn’t really share that with [00:02:00] anyone. I try to keep it quiet because of my business, you know, being on my own, raising two kids.
My kids were pretty much in their, in college years at that time. Still, I needed to keep working. And so I kept it to myself. I did radiation the first time. The second time, um, was like 2017 and that was on the other side and I caught that early also.
Dorothy: Also with the mammogram or?
Deborah: With the mammogram and the biopsies.
Dorothy: Yeah.
Deborah: Both biopsies. And then that was caught very early. So I did a lumpectomy again, second time, so I didn’t do radiation and I didn’t do, they offered me chemo and they’ve offered me radiation and I refused both of those because I didn’t, I couldn’t, I had to keep [00:03:00] going, I had, I couldn’t stop working and it was, I knew what was involved the first time around and so, um, Then I got the third round and I started seeing signs of like a tumor.
Dorothy: Mm.
Deborah: So on the right side. So.
Dorothy: Something you had— You felt or you saw it?
Deborah: Yeah.
Dorothy: Okay.
Deborah: I saw it and I felt it.
Dorothy: Oh.
Deborah: So this was totally different.
Dorothy: Mm-Hmm.
Deborah: Than the first and second time. So. I had to do something about that immediately. And then that’s when they said, Do you have cancer again? So, it was a good thing that I didn’t do the chemo and the radiation the second time.
At least that’s what they tell me. Thank goodness you didn’t do that. So, Then I did the mastectomy, double mastectomy.
Dorothy: And the, the radiation sometimes can change the [00:04:00] skin texture. So if you do a mastectomy, it can impact the healing process. And particularly if you’re going to do reconstruction. So, you know, that’s, that was probably a part of it.
But you had different cancers each time. Right?
Deborah: Right. They’re, they’re all very aggressive. That’s what they said. But this time around I have the HER2 and a hormone, a hormone.
Dorothy: Yeah. The ER, PR, positive and HER2 Pops. Yeah. That’s a tough one. That, that is one of the more aggressive.
Deborah: See, I don’t read about them.
I don’t want to know about them. Truthfully. I will listen and. Find out for other people what they have, but I don’t really want to know the details of what I have.
Dorothy: Oh.
Deborah: Yeah.
Dorothy: That’s interesting. Some people just can’t get enough.
Deborah: Oh, no. Oh, no. Mm mm. Don’t give it to me. No. No. My oncologist, he has a chalkboard about that big it looks [00:05:00] like.
And, uh, he starts Going over to the chalkboard and pulls out his marker. I’m like, he did it one time. And I was like, I’m going to get through this. It’s going to be okay. He drew saggy boobs and all the pictures of where, what all he was doing. I was like, and then the next time he went to the chalkboard, I was like, no, no, no, no, no, please stop, stop.
And he just turned around and looked at me like, what in the world is wrong with you? And I was like, just don’t, I can’t do that. I can’t do that.
Dorothy: I love that. I mean, you knew what you wanted to know and what you didn’t want to have to see again and you spoke up.
Deborah: Yeah.
Dorothy: That’s a big thing.
Deborah: I just, I didn’t want to go through it again.
It was the process of what all, I mean, I can take the big picture, but let’s, let’s don’t dissect it to where we’re at and how much longer we have to go. And we [00:06:00] haven’t even gotten through a year, the year of infusions. So. Now he’s already, you know, at times he talks about, uh, trial testing, stuff like that.
And I’m like, I’m not even through radiation yet.
Dorothy: Yeah.
Deborah: I’m not, I don’t want to go that far, you know, I don’t want to be on top of it like that every day.
Dorothy: And. You know, that’s so important for every woman to realize you’re going to have different responses. Not everybody’s going to respond the same. Now, I want to go back to something you said, because I don’t think we’ve ever even shared that on this program, is that there’s something like 19 different kind of breast cancers.
People think breast cancer is all the same, but it’s not. And that’s why you can’t judge what treatment somebody else may be getting against your own. It just, it may not, it may be totally different. So, but you are, you are still [00:07:00] Owner of, uh, Barfield Photography, right? And I guess you have photographed every successful woman in this town through your, uh, experience with your association with the Federation of Houston Professional Women and through Texas Executive Women.
Have you ever noticed anything, and I’m staying in your work area now, Is there any similarity with these women that are being, that have been very successful, that are, you know, top of their game, they’re, they’re being, um, recognized for all the things they’ve done? Do, is there any similarity?
Deborah: There are very They’re very good at multitasking and they’re very, well, they’re very motivated and a lot of them have families with children and, or they’ve raised children, so there’s a good, they have [00:08:00] good balance in their life to continue to do that because it’s a lot of work.
Dorothy: You’re the same with your company and what you’ve had to balance with everything .
Deborah: Right, but I’m not at that level. I’m just one little person, you know, behind the camera. And, um, yeah, I’m not a doctor, I’m not a lawyer, I’m just a photographer.
Dorothy: Deborah, let me tell you, the best pictures I ever had, and I am not that photogenic with the ones you took, so don’t let her fool you on that.
Deborah: But that’s a lot, the multitasking and just good balance in their life, you know, they’re—
Dorothy: How do you get them to relax in their, in their, when they’re getting their head shots or?
Deborah: Well, a lot of times they come in and they’re, they’re just like I was today, worried about something else. They’re [00:09:00] on the phone or someone’s calling them or, um, they got to answer this call.
So I’ve got to bring them with me. Just give me 15, 20 minutes, just try. And um, just got to get them to focus a little bit on what we’re doing and just continuing to give them direction. If I give them direction, then they forget about all the nervousness of being photographed or what they’ve got outside.
So, I just keep going until I get what I want. I don’t stop.
Dorothy: I’ve seen that in you, for sure. So give us some tips, like if we’re going to have a professional photograph done, what do you tell them?
Deborah: I’m not letting them know they’re heavy or thin. Sometimes I don’t even know, but over the phone, I’ll tell them darker clothes are going to make you look smaller, brighter clothes are going to make you look bigger, more makeup, [00:10:00] going heavier on mascara, eyeliner, bring your powder.
And then when we get there, I’ve. then I start trying to ramrod and control the situation. So there’s a, that’s, cancer hasn’t taken over my life, but control has always been in my life.
Dorothy: That’s a Very interesting statement. Cancer has not taken over your life? Hasn’t defined you?
Deborah: No, not at all.
Dorothy: So how did you, how did you do that? How did you keep it from not being
Deborah: Well, it was good for me to not talk about it for the first two rounds. So, I didn’t think it was necessary. It was like I didn’t want to be labeled like that.
And I just did not want people to know, because once they find out you have something like cancer, [00:11:00] Oh, you don’t want to hire her. She’s got cancer. You need to hire so and so.
Dorothy: Really!?
Deborah: Well, that’s what I think.
Dorothy: Your perception or have you seen that in your business?
Deborah: Well, it’s gonna, it’s gonna. That’s—
Dorothy: No, that is very true.
We still have the same prejudices about Oh, they can’t do the same jobs, a, um, it’s, it’s contagious. Do you remember a time when we thought, Oh my gosh, you can’t be around someone who has cancer? That is so fascinating.
Deborah: I was doing weddings back when I, you know, when I first started photography, that’s how I started out was with doing weddings.
And so my, my schedule for the year was already booked out. So, you know, every time I booked something, I was, when I had cancer, I was like, so worried. I was going to book that job. I was determined. But if it leaked out that I had cancer, it was going to slow down. [00:12:00] So.
Dorothy: And you were still having two sons.
You’ve got to get through college.
Deborah: Yeah. So, you know, they don’t know. My, their wedding day was more important to make sure they had someone that they knew that was going to be able to show up. And, you know.
Dorothy: I just, I just, I’m still.
Deborah: Yeah, I, I was fine.
Dorothy: Yeah.
Deborah: I was fine.
Dorothy: Yeah.
Deborah: Yeah. This time around when you see it in your skin and you feel it in your body, then it’s different. I mean, when they show you, it’s just a little piece, a little speck of pepper. That’s like, eh, we can get that. We can take care of that. That’s not a problem. But when it’s starting, you see it. So. They told me, uh, the last time after my surgery, that, that I have cancer in the skin. And I was like, well, what does that mean?
And how are we going to fix that? You can’t skin me. So, [00:13:00] what are you going to do about that? I’ve already had radiation now. So, just cut it out. That’s what they were saying. You’re going to just have to cut it out. It’s like, let’s just focus on the cancer, the breast cancer right now. Because when they, my head, when I lost my hair, I had a little spot on my head.
I was, I asked him, the oncologist, what’s this? What, what do you think that is? He goes, Oh, Debbie, let’s just focus on one cancer at a time. But he goes, it looks good.
Dorothy: But that’s always normal. I mean, it’s like every ache, every pain, you know, has it come back? Is it, is this a part of it? Has it spread? That, that is so common.
Deborah: Yeah. Every little, you know, like right now when I’m doing the radiation. To the drain did not work when they did the surgery on the right side, the side with the breast cancer, it did not work. So I had to go back in to put a drain in to where, but [00:14:00] it didn’t really work either. So, but I noticed that my arms, I couldn’t really lift my arms without it hurting.
I couldn’t lay on my side. Sorry guys, my nose is running because of the chemo.
Dorothy: See, you’re sharing so many things that a lot of folks don’t even realize happen. And it’s all a part of the treatment, all a part of the process.
Deborah: And your eyes run, and anyway. And when they tell you you’re going to lose your hair, you’re going to lose your hair.
You lose your hair everywhere. Nose hairs, eyelashes, everywhere. But when I lay on my side, I’ve never had problems hurting. But when I lay on my side now, my shoulders hurt, my biceps hurt. Um, my, just everything up here hurts and I can’t really lift my arms, but they haven’t told me to do exercise. Don’t lift things five pounds or more.
But, um, they keep [00:15:00] going, say, go back to your surgeon, ask your surgeon. So, It must be that the position that they kept me in when they did the surgery. I don’t know, but it’s just a different feeling. And you think, Oh, it’s, it’s cancer. I’m sure it’s gone to my bones now. So you, your mind does do little, little tricks with it.
So you got to just keep it and keep it under control.
Dorothy: Well, thanks for sharing that. I mean, I, I know. You’re, you’re very private, but these are some very common symptoms and, and reactions to the treatment that most people don’t even know about. So who knows if it’s out there feeling the same thing and going, Oh, I’m so glad someone else is talking about this, you know, that’s what this show is all about.
It’s about. How do we take better care of ourselves, even when we’re going through something as major as cancer, and make ourself [00:16:00] first? And you know, you had a job that you didn’t have any help. That was going to be it for you. So, you had to take some drastic steps. You had to take a certain approach, or you wouldn’t have made it.
Deborah: Correct. I wouldn’t have.
Dorothy: So, I know your sons were older. How did you share your diagnosis with them?
Deborah: Well.
Dorothy: Or did you for the first two?
Deborah: I really didn’t share. I mean, I have third boys. They were guys. So, you know, uh, I think they’re listening now, but mom’s always kept going, you know, so it’s like, that’s one more thing.
Here we go. So, but I think this time they’ve, they, they have listened.
Dorothy: They were more interested or more— concerned or they probably were always concerned if you had shared it with them.
Deborah: Right, right It’s like, yeah, it’s just a piece [00:17:00] of paper.
Dorothy: Yeah
Deborah: It’s all good. It’s all good.
Dorothy: But okay, this is really Confusing me a little bit.
Who was your support system then?
Deborah: Oh, I have Karen Barfield. We’ve been together as business partners since the 90s. I have a friend Ted and Glenda Gard. They are They’ve helped me raise my boys pretty much, they own a daycare. I went back to school to finish up my degree. They helped me with, um, letting me have the kids there.
I work there some. And, um, we’ve stayed friends. We go out to dinner. They take me to dinner every Friday night for over 35 years.
Dorothy: Wow.
Deborah: And it’s like, it’s a standing.
Dorothy: Wow.
Deborah: Yeah, I don’t take, I do not do business on Friday nights.
Dorothy: That’s your time.
Deborah: That’s it. That’s it.
Dorothy: With your friends.
Deborah: Mm hmm.
Dorothy: And see, that’s another part of When you’re trying to [00:18:00] find that balance when you’re trying to take care of yourself or give yourself that that’s perfect.
Deborah: Right.
Dorothy: Yeah, and of course those friends were the ones that carried you.
Deborah: Right. Exactly.
Dorothy: This happens so much many times women have pulled away from their friends and It’s just a real reminder that we all need that support system. No matter what.
Deborah: Oh, yeah, absolutely. This time around, I couldn’t have done it without a little help from my friends.
Really. Just, just my networking groups. This time, of course, losing my hair. I had to let them know what’s going on.
Dorothy: Right.
Deborah: Some of them thought, well, she’s just so artsy. She just did it. You know, that’s what she does. I’m like. No,
this is not.
Dorothy: No.
Deborah: This is not the look I’m going for.
Dorothy: So talk about these groups for just a minute.
I was. [00:19:00] Looking at all your information, is there any group you’re not involved with in Houston that’s related to women?
Deborah: I’ve been involved with the Federation of Houston, which is the umbrella of a lot of smaller groups throughout Houston. Then Texas Executive Women, uh, Houston, uh, the River Oaks groups, both of those in the past.
I’m still involved with one of the River Oaks groups, a group called Pro. That’s a fun, fun group. They’re not so focused on, uh, you know, I’ve always been in the hustle trying to, you know, if I’m not making money, I don’t need to be there. I don’t play. If I’m going to go spend time doing something for business, I need to make sure that I’m making money in that group.
And I’m always giving to the groups. But also I need to have something come back, you know, from the [00:20:00] individuals. So, but this Pro group, they’re, they’re, they’re more of a group like myself. You know, usually I grab the groups that are, you know, a little higher than I am. So, but this group, they’re fun.
They’re just so much fun. And I can’t believe I spend my time having fun with this group. But the whole. Every year is planned around appreciation luncheon, or the women, woman of excellence, a gala, or they’ll do the Christmas gala. What else? They do, do these different things, but they plan these really fancy events.
And that’s what the whole year pretty much is about. And I thought, well, I cannot believe I am with people, these women that care about what color flowers they’re going to put on the table, or what. Linens and napkins they’re going to use. Before, I could care less about that kind of stuff. [00:21:00] But it’s just the women.
They’re fun. Yeah, it’s fun. It’s like, don’t give them a glue gun. Gosh, that would be wild.
Dorothy: Now, would you give other women that advice about, you work all the time. Except for this group, it sounds like. Do you play? Do you ever play? How do you relax?
Deborah: I have a little shack, um, little place to get away in at Lake Somerville.
And, um, I’ve restored that over the years. It’s about a, it’s about a hundred year old shack. And so it’s got the original floors, the stuff like that, but. I’ve tried to keep it as original as possible, but—
Dorothy: That’s where you go.
Deborah: I’ve been playing around with that place for a while. It’s pretty much the way I wanted it. So, it’s kind of like my little sanctuary, my little altar, my little meditation spot. Because I do [00:22:00] my, a lot of my time and energy is to my customers, my clients. So. They’re the most important, but my quiet time is at Somerville.
Dorothy: And you go up there. How often?
Deborah: I used to go quite a bit Once a week if I could even if it was just for the day But our stay a weekend if I wasn’t working on that weekend but Photography is it’s you know, people want what they want and they need what they need and You just, you gotta take care of it.
You know, they might be campaigning right then, and they need their campaign shots, and they need it, like, now. So, wedding’s the same. You got a wedding planned, it’s like the whole weekend for me is out. So, and all the editing and getting that turned around, get them back to them. I mean, they want to see them now.
They want to see them while they’re on their [00:23:00] honeymoon. So, and I’m a heavy shooter when it comes to a wedding, so it takes a long time to edit that.
Dorothy: A while ago you were talking about people think you’re artsy or that look, new look you had was part of your artsy side.
Deborah: Uh huh.
Dorothy: What other things do you do that are artsy?
Is it all photography or do you do other things?
Deborah: No, I, like my, uh, shack. It’s, um, my degree was in interiors. So my background was interior design. But I was in my twenties when I got out of college with that. And back then we didn’t have computers to where we could show you the rug, or show you the lamp, or show you the wallpaper.
We had to go and get that stuff and bring it to you. And then the ladies could not make decisions. They had to ask their husband or they wanted to ask their friends, their neighbors, and. It would just be, you know, making decisions over wine or [00:24:00] margaritas, and I was just not into that. I was wanting to make, have them, you know, make decisions.
Let’s move forward. And it was, I couldn’t control that. And that was another control issue there. So, I had to get out of that. So, my interior design is real heavy in my world, but it’s what I do for myself or my friends. Things like that.
Dorothy: Interesting.
Deborah: So, I remodeled the studio with Karen. Karen owns the home that we work out of, so it needed a lot of work.
It was back, still looking like the 70s. So, the green carpet and the yellow everything.
Dorothy: Oh my gosh, I remember. I’ve been in that studio a couple of times. Yeah, I remember that. I remember, uh, not wanting the standard photograph for the women on the move, you know. I just didn’t want that. Were you there then, that Karen—?
Deborah: Yeah.
Dorothy: I remember y’all were real [00:25:00] encouraging. Okay, we’ll do something else which Just I I’ve never had that and usually it’s you’re gonna sit here. You’re gonna do this and that’s it. Yeah So that always impressed me that that you actually listened To what I was hoping to get and it was a very new time for me to have anything like that done so it was You know, it was, it was comforting.
I don’t know whether encouraging it was like, okay, we can do this now. And I think that’s one of the reasons why you’ve been so successful.
Deborah: Well, Karen is a, she is a master photographer. She’s, she was the first female master photographer. That’s president of the Houston Photographers Association. So, I mean, she’s been trained to make, she knows exactly head tilts, head positions, everything’s perfect.
And, um, I’m, I was not like that. I didn’t [00:26:00] want to be that. And so we played that good cop, bad cop for years where people would, she would be so intense that I would calm it down by, you know, saying it’s okay.
Dorothy: Yeah, I do remember that part of you. Yes. And I remember that part of her, but you, you bought that business in, in 2000.
Deborah: Well, in 2008. Well, she’s, we’re 15 years apart. Okay. So she’s going to be turning 81 or something. I can’t believe it. Karen Barfield, 81.
Dorothy: I hope she doesn’t hear this and go, Oh my gosh.
Deborah: That’s our relationship.
Dorothy: Yeah.
Deborah: And, uh, So we went through Ike together, and we went through Harvey together, and we had lightning strike the studio at one time.
Dorothy: Oh.
Deborah: Uh, the raccoon took the bullet, so we lost everything during that, uh, lightning strike. That was the worst, more [00:27:00] than Harvey and Ike, really. Yeah. But when we had Ike, we had six trees come through our studio, so, um, and, you know, here I am to have two kids still. She’s got She’s single, she’s got two older grown men, and, um, I had breast cancer at the time.
And she was like, oh, I’m so tired, I don’t want to do this anymore. And I said, well, I do. So, she goes, well then just keep coming, do what we’ve been doing, and you can just lease out the space. So, I lease the space, I own the studio, I mean, I own Barfield Photography, but I lease that space. So when I’m there, it’s the studio.
Dorothy: Yeah.
Deborah: But Karen has one room and one bathroom in the back, and I treat her like a mommy dearest, pretty much. Don’t serve the bird, but, that’s the way we roll.
Dorothy: Yeah, we always had a special, [00:28:00] special relationship. So, as we wind up now, and you’ve talked about being a businesswoman, going through cancer three times, deciding not to share the first two times for a lot of reasons.
Uh, and I, I just hope folks hear that you have that choice. You don’t have to share if you, if you choose not to. So that’s, that takes a lot of discipline and a lot of strength. So thanks for sharing that. What would you tell women now that you’ve had this three times? Now’s the time that you’ve, it’s very obvious and you had different treatment.
What would you tell them about taking care of themselves?
Deborah: Well, I, I did take care of myself, you know, um, but it still happened.
Dorothy: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
Deborah: But, um,
Dorothy: and that’s so important. It doesn’t matter, you know, [00:29:00] how well you’re eating or all of that stuff. Cancer is its own animal. It’s gonna, it, it, we talk a lot about prevention.
But there’s really no prevention. It, it is a, it’s, there’s ways that you can catch it early, which is the best.
Deborah: Right. And I did catch it. I caught them all pretty early. I think the, the third one is probably just because it was a tumor. It made me question how soon I did catch it because I couldn’t, there wasn’t a sign for the first two.
Dorothy: Yeah.
Deborah: But I was on, I did my regular, you know, checkups all the time.
Dorothy: And that’s, that’s just an important message.
Deborah: But we got to do it.
Dorothy: It’s like here we have control queen over here, but there’s some things you just can’t control.
Deborah: But I have to say that all, all this time, all these years being alone. I have taken care of myself [00:30:00] and I do put it on the calendar and I do try to make it a priority, but it is so funny because when I do have an appointment for like a mammogram or something, it’s, I forget sometimes.
Dorothy: Oh.
Deborah: And then that, I think that is so funny. It’s so odd. And it’s just like, it’s almost like it’s a setting myself up or something. Or if like I made an appointment for a dentist’s appointment. Then I would never do that for a business appointment ever, but it’s funny how those kind of slip. Debbie, where are you?
We were expecting you for your mammogram. I’m like, what?
Dorothy: That is interesting.
Deborah: Yeah.
Dorothy: Yeah.
Deborah: But I do take care of myself. It’s just like when they, I’ve got four more weeks of radiation. So cool. I know that they’re going to radiate close to my mouth, my jaw. So I felt it was important. I don’t [00:31:00] know why, but I felt it was important to go have my teeth all checked and cleaned.
And right before I started that radiation, because I have my teeth cleaned every four months because I have a wire. So I make sure, you know, that’s all taken care of. Because my son had, uh, Hodgkin’s Lymphoma, and they told him to make sure that he took care of his teeth on that.
Dorothy: Yeah, they’re so interconnected.
Well, you’ve learned a lot then through all this, and you have done all the things.
Deborah: You just gotta do what you can do.
Dorothy: And I think that’s been your, your guiding principle. Yeah. You got to do what you got to do.
Deborah: Yes.
Dorothy: Thank you so much for being with us. This was a great interview.
Deborah: Thank you for having me.
Dorothy: Of course. Of course.
Deborah: The only reason I’m here is because you said, Debbie, you might have some things to share that other women might benefit from. So I mentioned [00:32:00] that to others and they said, you do go do it. So.
Dorothy: Yeah. Well, I’m glad the others agreed. Thank you again.
Deborah: Thank you.
Dorothy: So that wraps it up for today. And don’t forget, we’re doing a episode every single day.
You’re going to get your daily dose of let’s talk about your breasts during the month of October.
Post-Credits: October is the month of pink. And for the Rose, a breast center of excellence. That means we’ll be airing podcasts every day in October. To celebrate Breast Cancer Awareness Month, we’ll be sharing everything from bikers writing for breast cancer to areola tattoos.
Be sure to share with family and friends because there’s a little something for everyone. To find out ways to help the Rose visit our website at therose.org. Remember, self-care is not selfish. It’s essential.
