Dorothy: [00:00:00] Is the integration of public health and individual health care crucial? Today, Maya Guhan, who is our Rice Board Fellow and who serves on our board as a non voting member, discusses her role with The Rose. She paused her efforts to become a physician to also attain an MBA, and she’s going to talk about why she felt like that was an important step in her career.
She’s been with The Rose for a year, and she continues to bring different aspects of her understanding of health care to our board. Throughout this conversation, Maya shares experiences from her project in India and what she’s learned from the mission moments that are shared at the board meetings, highlighting a value based health care approach. She advocates for physician involvement in innovation and emphasizes the importance of access to healthcare.
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Maya, thank you so much for being with us today. I, I am so excited to be able to interview our Rice Fellow, but I had no idea how much else there is to this young woman. Oh my goodness.
Maya: Thank you so much for having me and for having me on the show. I really appreciate it and I really appreciate being part of The Rose [00:02:00] community for the last year as well.
Dorothy: Yeah, so first I want you to talk about what it means to be a Rice Fellow and to be on, I think they call it Board Fellow.
Maya: Yeah, so the organization is called Rice Business Board Fellows and right now I’m part of the leadership team of that organization at Rice. And essentially it’s an organization that pairs Rice students, specifically MBAs, with local non profit boards in the Houston area.
So we have about 45 to 50 non profits that we work with, The Rose being one of them. And we essentially pair those students up for a year long commitment where they can kind of serve on that board and help them in whatever way that the organization needs. Um, and really it’s a way for people to kind of give back to their community but also understand kind of from a business and organizational perspective how these non profits are run.
Dorothy: So why non profit? Do you also have a for profit sector?
Maya: No, so we started this basically as a way to give back to the community and that kind of having that as the priority, I think, you know, when we’re [00:03:00] recruiting and we have all these companies come on campus, we have a lot of representation from for profit companies, but not as much maybe from non profits.
Dorothy: And why did you pick The Rose?
Maya: So I initially, so you don’t get to pick as part of the process, you get to tell like which sector you want to go into, what your primary interest is. And so, I came into business school having done three years of medical school and, um, I had worked a lot with different volunteer organizations being on the front lines from, you know, women’s shelters, homeless shelters, working with inmates at the Harris County Jail.
And for me, I really enjoyed those experiences, but I also kind of, part of going to business school was understanding more about like the financials of organizations, what their strategic objectives are. And so I wanted an experience where I could kind of be on the back end, so to say, to really understand how non profits are run, how their, what their objectives are, and kind of how they’re positioning themselves.
And so I said that I would really be interested in working in the healthcare sector, given my background and kind of these were my [00:04:00] objectives. And the team, the leadership team from last year, kind of placed me at The Rose.
Dorothy: Interesting. I knew there was a process. I just wasn’t sure about that. And non profit organizations have to actually apply. And we have certain requirements that we do, but they’re very easy to do. It’s not difficult at all. Just in case there’s other non profits out there that would enjoy being a part of this. One of our Rice Fellows became a member of our board.
Maya: Wow, that’s great.
Dorothy: You know, she, uh, she enjoyed it so much, but she was still young in her business and waited about four or five years and then reached out to us and said, Oh, by the way, and I thought, Oh yeah, what a, what a nice circle. What a nice closure. You know, she understands what it was like. Now, why in the world? Are you going to both medical school and business school? What, what led you to that path?
Maya: It’s a [00:05:00] very good question and a question that I’ve been asked a lot this last few years. So for me, I grew up in California for most of my life and I went to UC Berkeley for undergrad. And there I was a public health major. So Berkeley, many people may or may not know, is kind of the start of the free speech movement. So there’s a very rich history of like political activism and kind of like, the belief that informed citizens can create change. And so I was part of their public health major.
And so I saw a lot of physicians advocating at the legislative level, you know, writing, doing research to really improve public health beyond just one on one patient interactions. And so that was something that I really liked. So when I started medical school, I was like, You know, maybe I might take a year off to get an MPH or maybe I might do something, you know, in addition to my medical training.
But I wasn’t exactly sure how that would pan out and, you know, there’s so many variables, the things that are changing. So I said, okay, it’ll be there in the back of my mind, but I’ll kind of go through medical [00:06:00] school. So I did. Medical school is really oriented, you know, you have like a year and a half where you’re sitting in the classroom, you’re doing lectures, you’re learning all the sciences, and then you have a year called kind of your core year where you’re in the hospital, you go through all the different specialties in medicine, and you spend about six weeks to eight weeks, um, for an entire year in each specialty, so like two months in OBGYN, two months in surgery, etc, etc.
And going through that process, um, I realized that clinicians are really, really good at, you know, solving patient problems. You know, you come in with an infection, we know exactly what to do for you and how to treat you. But we aren’t so good, physician speaking, aren’t really that good in terms of understanding financial objectives or organizations and being able to advocate on a bigger scale knowing kind of the business of medicine. I noticed that that was something that wasn’t taught as much in medical school, but something that could make a big difference for me later down the line as a physician who wants to, you know, [00:07:00] impact change in a bigger scale. And so I thought the MD MBA program might be something that would give me a different skill set. And it was great that, you know, Rice and Baylor have an affiliation and it was, you know, I didn’t have to move really, really far. They had a lot of other students who were also considering it in my year. And it seems like something that I would be able to do, something that would be convenient to do and something that could also give me a lot of growth in my career later on.
Dorothy: What specialty do you hope to go into?
Maya: I want to become an internal medicine. So I’m going into internal medicine, and my hope is to go into cardiology afterwards.
Dorothy: Ah, so you still have five years ahead?
Maya: Six years, but who’s counting?
Dorothy: Who’s counting, right. No, you know how, how much you still have to commit. That, that is a huge commitment of your life.
Maya: Yeah.
Dorothy: To do this, so. You always wanted to be a physician?
Maya: No, not always.
Dorothy: Um, what was the turning point? I mean, you’re at, you’re in public health. You [00:08:00] strong advocate for different things. So what moved you?
Maya: So for me, I think there are two pivotal experiences, I think, that moved me. So my mom, um, both my parents are immigrants. They both came from India and they’re both, uh, engineers. And so my mom, she always wanted to become a doctor, but really life circumstances didn’t lead to her kind of going down that pathway. And so she kind of, I think, always had like a sweet, soft, soft spot for me going into medicine. And she’d be like, Maya, think about it, Maya, think about it. But I was like, you know, if I want to do medicine, it should be because I want to do it, not someone else is telling me to. So, um, in high school I did this, uh, summer anatomy course basically, um, at a local college near me and essentially during the day they would, um, teach us about the anatomy through slides and everything.
And then we would work with cadavers. So people who had donated their bodies to science and we would learn and hold the anatomy and go through the anatomy. [00:09:00] And I really, really loved that experience. I loved learning about the science of the human body, how things would work together. And, um, I remember I’d come home every day from the program. I would talk to my dad and he’s like, you sound like a doctor already. And I think for me, it was that moment where. I really enjoyed the science and the thinking, the analytical thinking behind it, but also really the service component of it. And I think that kind of started me down that path. And then after I finished high school, I went to Berkeley, was a public health major that kind of built on it there.
And I think one pivotal experience in Berkeley that really solidified it for me was, uh, I did a research project in Tamil Nadu, India, which is where my family is from there, and um, they have, uh, public healthcare, so every, there’s like 32 districts in the state, similar to counties, and each county has a hospital, basically a public hospital that’s completely free for all their residents.
And so, um, In three of those hospitals, they had [00:10:00] chosen three kind of flagship hospitals in those districts, they implemented an infection prevention and control program. And this was before COVID, so now we understand how important that is. But essentially, they’d implemented this program, and then three years later, they needed someone to go in and talk to the key stakeholders, you know, talk to the chief medical officer who runs the hospital, physicians and nurses to figure out, you know, how effective was this program, and if we want to take it from three separate districts and spread it across the state to 32, what would we need to change? And so this was really kind of me on the ground going to all of these different hospitals, talking to these stakeholders, figuring out some of these huge institutional inequalities that they were facing.
Um, for example, like, one of the doctors at the hospital there, he had to essentially meet And talk to a hundred patients an hour, um, if there was 40 beds, people would be sitting on the beds and there’d be people in between the beds. And they said before this program, they didn’t have [00:11:00] soaps in the bathrooms. And so it’s like, it’s hard not to come from a paternalistic, you know, Oh my God, what is going on here? But it’s like, you really realize that there are so many inequalities in care. And, um, for me, it was great to be able to use my like mother tongue Tamil and talk to the people there, um, on use my education and kind of figure out what I could do with these insights that I gathered from all of the different people.
And so I was able to write like a policy brief for the government of Tamil Nadu and then publish my findings in a global health journal as well. And I think that experience solidified that I want to be a physician. I want to take care of patients. I want to use the science and serve others, but also I really want to impact change on a larger scale. And I think that kind of informed my perspective throughout medical school as well.
Dorothy: Oh my goodness. Yes, of course. So but those are two different in the medical world in the U. S. very different Approaches if you really think about it. I mean [00:12:00] public health has been why we are healthier period, right? You know all the things that go with that. But from what I’ve seen in the physician community, it is that individual who is making that change in the patient. But at the end of the day, if we don’t have both, it’s not going to work.
Maya: Exactly. We need both. And I think we are all healthier if we have both.
Dorothy: But you know, I’m just sitting here thinking there was a hospital in every district, every county, you know, we don’t have that in Texas.
Maya: We don’t. And it’s a completely free system. So like women will come in and have their babies and they’ll give them like, you know, like, you know, diapers and cream and all these things. And I’m like, India is doing it, like what’s stopping us from doing it? And so like, I actually took my grandpa with me on all of these visits. So it was like a little family trip too. So I was going to all of these hospitals and he was coming with me and he was telling me that it was the first time that he had gone to like a public hospital in the state that he grew up in for the last like 75 years. [00:13:00] And um, I think for me it was just, you need some of those experiences when you talk to people and you see those inequities in front of you to really motivate you to, you know, have that fuel and passion and fire for the rest of your career.
Dorothy: Oh, absolutely. But what a gift, I mean, to see his response.
Maya: Exactly.
Dorothy: And to be involved in this change.
Maya: Yeah.
Dorothy: That is, that is, wow. How long did that all take?
Maya: So I had worked on the project for about two, two and a half years, and then I was there in person for about a month, going to all these different places and talking to the different people.
Dorothy: Okay, I hate to ask this, but how old were you doing that?
Maya: I was a senior in college, so around like 20, 21 ish, yeah.
Dorothy: Oh my goodness, wow, wow, what a, what an experience.
Maya: It was, it definitely was, and I really appreciate that experience and um, what I learned from it and hopefully the insights I gathered will kind of help me as I go in my career. [00:14:00]
Dorothy: So let’s go now to your experience in this non profit community called The Rose. You know, there’s a, I know at board meetings there’s a lot of talk about finances. And, and what has been the easiest to absorb and the most confusing?
Maya: I think the thing that I like most about the board meetings is the mission moment. I really appreciate that. I think, um, I also attended the luncheon this year and the cancer survivor who shared her story was really, really impactful.
I think, um, I think the mission moment is really important because it reinforces the values, right? The values of The Rose, what we stand for, what we want to do, and I think it brings everyone together on the same page before we kind of go into the nitty gritty of the operations and the money and all those things.
Um, I think for me, maybe some of the most confusing aspects of it [00:15:00] might have been, I think, initially just learning everybody’s roles and how they kind of fit in together. I think it It’s easier to understand, you know, what a CFO does, what you do, but kind of smaller roles in terms of the bigger landscape, understanding, okay, what does governance do?
What does this committee do? What does that committee do? I think getting a good understanding of what their objectives are and why there needs to be a certain committee to do that XYZ thing.
Dorothy: Wow, that’s interesting. And some of our board members, you know, you have this background that you’ve acquired. Some of our board members are coming to us from for profit uh, environment that the whole idea of nonprofit is just alien .
Maya: Yeah. Yeah.
Dorothy: You know, the, the idea that you have to ask for help and ask for money and
Maya: Right.
Dorothy: How that plays out. We aren’t creating widgets.
Maya: Yeah.
Dorothy: We aren’t selling something here. You know, we are touching people’s lives and sometimes that gets very nebulous. It gets, you know, what, what did you really do? Well, we did a mammogram. Well, what does that mean? [00:16:00] And, uh, so, and the other thing that I’ve found in some of our board members is that difficulty in understanding that in healthcare, you do not get paid for what you do. Uh, how would you explain it? I mean, you, you’re seeing it now, both from a physician standpoint and a, and a business person standpoint.
Maya: Um, I think you’re absolutely right. Um, I’m currently taking a class at Rice called, um, Value Based Healthcare, so it’s kind of how we’re moving from a fee for service to a value based platform. And we had a congenital heart surgeon come and talk to us, and he was like, you know, usually profit margins, if you get 1%, you’re lucky. And so, I think, you know, You know, we don’t want it to be about the money, but also sometimes it is about the money, so that really, like, I think he said it really well, he said, It’s not about the money, but having money helps fund the mission. And I, I really agreed with that statement that he said.
Dorothy: And I had someone, very, very smart guy, and non [00:17:00] profits say, non profits cannot do their mission without that funding. I mean, we could do services to a point, but not the mission. That’s what shifts it, because if your mission is serving people who don’t have money, then you can’t do that when, when everything has to be based on a cost or an ex, you know, an exchange of, of funds there. It’s, uh, I forget being in this so long. I forget how, um, alien it sounds to some people, you know, what do you mean you don’t have a profit margin? I mean, it’s a first question. And the other thing that many, many of our, we’ve had many Capstone programs, you know, come in and review our things, but all of them go, you have to get rid of the mobile program, because it’s cost too much. And we go, that’s our mission. And that’s the, that’s the, uh, training, the education part that we do, because [00:18:00] you sometimes have a very costly uh, program that is the core of your mission, that outreach, that making mammograms accessible to anyone. You know, we forget that a lot of women who are insured can’t take that time off to go have a mammogram. And when that coach shows up at their business or their church or wherever, then they go take advantage of it.
Maya: I agree.
Dorothy: And so, you’re almost finished with your time. And, uh, what are some other observations you’ve had?
Maya: I think in terms of other observations, um, I’ve noticed that a lot of the volunteers, board members, and employees have been here for a very long time.
Uh, people are always, I’ve been at The Rose for a blank number of years. And I think, [00:19:00] uh, It really has to do with the organizational culture and how important that is to The Rose of really being mission focused, but also being able to handle and navigate challenges as they arise, specifically related to like hurricane, hurricane Barrel. I think that was one that we talked about a lot recently about how things are really disrupted and, um, The Rose is really helpful in accommodating to employees as well as volunteers, as well as the patients. Um, I think I really appreciated that. And I really felt welcome at The Rose, um, from the start of, you know, last November to this November, um, in terms of my involvement and me wanting to learn more about kind of how The Rose is run as well as your mission as well.
Dorothy: So what is it you’re going to change?
Maya: What is it I’m going to change specifically in relation to—
Dorothy: this world, this, this world of healthcare that you’re in?
Maya: That’s a hard question. Um, I feel like for me right now, I’m [00:20:00] thinking in two ways. I think one is really access to healthcare is something that I’m really passionate about. And I think, um, a lot of the Baylor students we do our training at Ben Taub Hospital, which is the County Hospital, and really realizing that lack of access and lack of access to care, I think really prioritizing how do we allow people to see primary care more, I think is one of my goals. I think another thing is really, um, being a proponent of innovation. And so, this last summer I worked in a medical device company called Pronotherasic and they are trying to create a device that helps sample lung nodules in a more minimul invasive way to really help lung cancer screening. So this is kind of a more sister kind of project but, it was more that we need a lot more physicians in innovation because, you know, things don’t move the needle unless you have people who are pushing for it. And so, um, physicians right now are [00:21:00] evaluating these new solutions, but are not really being involved in pushing them forward and developing them. So, so something that I wanna do in the future is work with other companies that are innovating in different spaces, whether it be it from the medical devices to population health but see what interventions we can push forward with the new technologies.
Dorothy: That’s interesting. I never really thought about the innovation part. I mean, I often thought often about the advocacy and often about the public health. But, you’re right. that innovation, we’re not gonna move. We’re not going to go anywhere if we don’t have something new to come. Yes.
Maya: And for me, it was, I was wondering, you know, I’ve seen a lot of MD, MBAs who are in healthcare administration, who maybe do consulting. And so, um, I got an opportunity through one of the alumni at Rice to work at the, The Texas Medical Center Innovation Center. And so for the summer I was working, um, in kind of the regulatory and strategy pathways there and [00:22:00] essentially how do we get the engineers who designed the device and the thoracic surgeons who are going to use the device, how do we get them to talk to each other and figure out how do we push this device forward so that, you know, people who have pulmonary metastases or people who are newly diagnosed with, or potentially diagnosed with lung cancer, how do we ensure that they, um, can get diagnosed and also get treated faster than they would before. So I think this company’s one example of so many different sorts of innovation, but I think it serves as a good example of why physicians need to be involved in innovation more.
Dorothy: Oh, absolutely. They they’re going to have to know how it’s going to apply at the end of the day. It’s not just about selling a product.
Maya: Exactly. Um, like for me, for example, I was working on a project where I was looking at different types of lung surgery and the complication rate versus, you know, looking at our device. And it was very interesting because someone like me would be perfectly suited to do that, right? I have done [00:23:00] so much research in, uh, medical school, so I can, you know, read a lot of scientific papers, understand the findings.
But I could also use that to make a business case for our device. So it was kind of a really great combination of both medicine as well as business and kind of the skill sets that I’ve gained over the last few years.
Dorothy: So talk about your one on one personal skills with the patient.
Maya: So, In, are you talking just like in a general clinic kind of setting?
Dorothy: General clinic, yeah.
Maya: I think in terms of my one on one patient skills, I would say this can probably be exemplified best with an example. Over the summer I was working at the Ben Taub Hospital, working on the cardiology service and there was a woman who came in who had severe heart failure. And so she, um, she came in and she Oh, she was having some symptoms, not being able to breathe. She felt very fatigued. So we admitted her, but over the next few days, um, she got really sick really quickly. She had to go on dialysis. She needed to [00:24:00] be intubated and her heart failure got worse and worse. And, um, in that case she was in the ICU, was really sick. And so we were talking to her family. Um, and I think one real great advantage of being a medical student is that we have a lot of time with our patients.
So I really kind of took the time to talk to her family members who are there, her daughter as well as her son, to really understand kind of the woman that their mom had been for the last, you know, 50, 60 years of her life and kind of what her, what she would have wanted for herself at this point, but also kind of realizing what they as a family wanted for their mom as well.
I think for me, it was a really. And I think that’s a really tough experience because usually you, you know, as a medical student, you don’t, you don’t have that much exposure to super, super sick people. Usually they’re really, they’re normal. You know, they come in for some diabetes medication and you send them off or, you know, they’re really, really sick and they’ve always been really, really sick.
I think this was my first time seeing a patient go from, you know, she’s able to talk with me, have a [00:25:00] conversation, and And then a few days later, she’s not there anymore, really. And she’s just kind of connected to all these tubes and machines. And, um, I think for me in that moment, I just wanted to make the family feel heard and feel understood and do whatever I could to support them.
Dorothy: And were they open with you? Was it easy for them to talk to you?
Maya: I think so. I think body language and tone, I think, makes a big difference. And I think really taking the time to go into the room, sit down, and, um, just giving them the space to reflect and to talk, and not, you know, saying, I have to go to the next patient or I have to do this, but just being still for a bit, I think really helps them open up.
Dorothy: And do we have an outcome on her yet?
Maya: Um, I Don’t think that the outcome is positive. I left before I could kind of see what happened to her. But, um, I think it was one of those scenarios where her heart was just so kind of at the end of its life and that we couldn’t really do much to kind of save her. [00:26:00] But I think, um, it was more understanding from an end of life perspective how we could support the family.
Dorothy: Right. And with the patients you’ve seen at Ben Taub, how how critical do you think access to care is?
Maya: I think it’s, it’s everything really. There are so many patients who come in the ER where, um, we see, okay, if they had come in earlier, if they had access to care, we could have caught this a lot earlier.
Dorothy: And, and I think what you said about the primary care physician is so important. We just don’t have that.
Maya: Exactly.
Dorothy: We really don’t. And I think that whatever we can do to encourage, more emphasis on that or whatever it is. But everybody needs that first, first person to go to that one. You can, that can look at all of you and not just say, this is part of you. I want to look at.
Maya: I agree. I think, um, talking about breast cancer and [00:27:00] kind of being, talking about The Rose, um, one of my experiences early on in medical school was working on a research project at MD Anderson, and, um, it was part of the radiation oncology department, but really talking to So, I wanted to talk to breast cancer survivors about, you know, if there was an option to, let’s say, avoid surgery, would they have taken it?
So, it was a lot of talking to patients and just understanding how they went from getting diagnosed with breast cancer, to kind of how their doctor supported them, the decisions they made with their treatment, and what they wished they would have done if they had another option. And for me, this was kind of me as a first year student really learning how to talk to patients, and I was really thankful for, um, I think the 20 people that I interviewed for really sharing with me the intimate parts of their lives and their diagnoses and how difficult it was and the people who supported them and I think it was my first really understanding of You know, how breast cancer can [00:28:00] really change your life completely, and how integral your support systems are in that journey.
Dorothy: Oh yes, absolutely. And unfortunately, we don’t have a lot of good research on type of people that have not had insurance or have not had access to care. That is, that is one area I think The Rose could really be helpful in.
Maya: Right, mm hmm.
Dorothy: Because that is part of our population, always has been, and, uh, There just needs to be a different understanding that that access to care is very different than many other types. Yeah. It’s, uh. It’s really sad sometimes. So who’s been your mentor?
Maya: My mentor, um, one of my mentors that I really keep in touch with from undergrad, actually, his name is Dr. John Schwartzberg. He is a public health professor at Berkeley. He is trained in medicine. He’s an infectious disease, um, doctor and he’s retired now, but [00:29:00] from the moment I’ve met him, I think he has always pushed me to think bigger, but also told me that I think someone like me, especially when I was younger, I Would feel like, you know, everything has to be perfect and everything has to happen now. And like, this is the end of the world if it doesn’t happen today. I think someone like him is really good and kind of reminding me of the bigger picture and to kind of go back to my morals and my values.
And I think every step of my journey from underground on, he’s been really supportive and helpful. And last week actually I submitted my application for residency and I, you know, let him know. And he was super happy and really, really excited for me and kind of excited to see where I’ll end up.
Dorothy: How neat.
Maya: Yeah, he’s, he’s great. I haven’t seen him in person in quite some time, but we always make time for video chats and to catch up.
Dorothy: So who have you mentored?
Maya: I’ve mentored a lot of different students. I think in medical school you are really [00:30:00] thrust into a mentoring position. Um, mentoring, you know, younger students who are going through their experience, mentoring people who have similar interests, let’s say in internal medicine and cardiology. Um, I think I really enjoy that experience of sharing what I’ve learned and, um, making it a better environment for them to go kind of throughout their medical school journeys.
Dorothy: So you have any regrets about this path you’ve taken so far?
Maya: It’s a good question. Um, I don’t think I have any regrets saying that, Oh, I wish I didn’t go into medicine or I wish I didn’t do the MBA. Um, I think there are difficulties along any path, but I think for me, I’ve realized as I’ve gone through this journey and now I’m, as I’m applying to residency, that I think there’s nothing else that would make me as happy as medicine would. And for me, my brain just kind of works in the way that an internal medicine doctor would.
So I think it’s a really great fit for my skill set and how I like [00:31:00] to think and what I would want to do with my life. But sometimes it is a very difficult path. And as I go throughout residency, it will probably get more difficult. But, um, I think, um, kind of having that mission in mind and having a great support system around me will help me get through those years.
Dorothy: And so, mother, dad still cheering you on?
Maya: Yeah, definitely. Uh, they’re still cheering me on. They’re very, very excited to see kind of where I end up, where I match for residency. I think my grandma is probably like the biggest fan. Um, she’s always asking. So, she lives in India. And she’s like, Maya, like, I really want you to come to the airport to pick me up. And I want you to wear your white coat and your stethoscope when you come. And she, she’s a sweetheart and she’s always been my biggest fan. And even now, I think now that I’ve started to like learn more medical knowledge, she’ll be like, you know, my back hurts. What should I do for it? This hurts, what should I do for it? So I really appreciate, you know, my entire family support, especially hers.
Dorothy: [00:32:00] Great talking with you, Maya. Thank you so much for being with us today.
Maya: Thank you so much for having me.
Post-Credits: Thank you for joining us today on Let’s Talk About Your Breasts. This podcast is produced by Speke Podcasting, and brought to you by The Rose. Visit TheRose.org to learn more about our organization. Subscribe to our podcast. Share episodes with friends, and join the conversation on social media using #LetsTalkAboutYourBreasts. We welcome your feedback and suggestions. Consider supporting The Rose. Your gift can make the difference to a person in need. Remember, self care is not selfish, it’s essential.
