Dorothy: [00:00:00] Her doctor told her, thank goodness you’re a yoga instructor because you’re going to do very well with your cancer diagnosis. Well, I’m not sure that Nancy Martch thought that at the time when she learned that she was going to be battling stage 3 breast cancer, and yet It was the yoga that helped her through it. She’s been a yoga instructor for so many years and she’s also a breast cancer survivor. Listen to all the things that she learned during her experience with breast cancer and how yoga shaped her life.
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Let’s Talk About Your Breasts, a different kind of podcast presented to you by The Rose, the Breast Center of Excellence, and a [00:01:00] Texas treasure. You’re going to hear a frank discussions about tough topics, and you’re going to learn why knowing about your breast could save your life.
Nancy, thank you so much for being with us here today on Let’s Talk About Your Breasts. And what an amazing history you have, and I can’t wait to, to go into it.
Nancy: Yeah, I’m very excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
Dorothy: So, you’ve had a breast cancer experience of your own many years ago, and you’re also a yoga instructor and a yoga therapist, right?
Nancy: That’s right, yes.
Dorothy: More the therapist now than anything else, is that right?
Nancy: Right, I primarily work with individuals or small targeted groups. So, what’s different? Well, typically when people think of yoga, they think of going to a yoga class, either at a studio or a gym, and it’s more of an exercise [00:02:00] based um, class.
Um, when you go to a yoga class, uh, even if it’s a, a leveled class or something like that, it’s targeted towards the general population and typically whomever shows up. You know, the teacher is trying to make sure that she provides a, a broad experience for everyone in the class. When you work with a yoga therapist, that therapist brings you in, um, does an intake with you and really talks about, you know, what are the issues that you’re dealing with? What do you hope to do and how do you hope to resolve these things? And then you come up with a plan, um, for ways to, to resolve that. So a lot of people, for instance, will come to me for, um, back pain, but we don’t just look at their back. We also look at how they’re sitting all day. Are they standing most of the day? Are they sitting most of the day? What kind of shoes do they wear? The quality of their posture? Um, how did they sleep? We look at [00:03:00] everything about that whole human, and then we start working from there.
Dorothy: And you also work with people who have chronic diseases or illnesses of some kind that go on and on?
Nancy: Right, and so in those cases, it’s not that you’ll necessarily find a cure, but we can heal and our healing always begins within, you know, our own interest and ability to support ourselves. Um, and for those people, it’s how do I best cope with this thing that I can’t change? So, um, as an example, I have a client, long term client who has Parkinson’s disease, and we work a lot on fall prevention, uh, working with his gait, doing a lot of relaxation exercises so that he has more ease in his body and he can sleep better. Um, and so that’s his way of he’s learning how to deal with an illness that he can’t [00:04:00] necessarily change.
Dorothy: And how long have you been practicing yoga. How long have you been a yogi?
Nancy: Over 30 years. Yeah, and I started teaching 25 years ago and then you know, of course I always tell people when you’re thinking about finding a good yoga teacher, what you want to look for is someone who is, you know, very very interested in learning more and always studying and always practicing. And so through the course of all that time, the style of yoga that I originally learned is very therapeutic by nature anyway. And when yoga therapy began to arise as a profession, um, as a complimentary medicine in the United States, I thought this was a really great opportunity to do additional study.
Dorothy: So what did you have to do to reach that level?
Nancy: Well, the International Association of Yoga Therapists is a certification organization for yoga [00:05:00] therapists. And so, they set minimum standards for yoga therapists for both the schools that train them and for the therapists themselves. So, um, the program that I took was 1,400 hours of study. Um, Yeah, over the course of several years and it was in Denver. So through most of COVID, I was going back and forth to Denver to complete my studies.
Dorothy: That is a real commitment.
Nancy: It was, and it was totally worth it.
Dorothy: So much more that you learn then. And just the poses and the practices.
Nancy: Right. So again, going back to a regular yoga class, you might do asana, which is the poses, um, some breathing exercises, pranayama. You might do, um, a little bit of meditation or centering, um, maybe some yoga nidra at the end of class to end class.
But in addition to those types of things, we really go in depth in to the philosophy, the [00:06:00] history of yoga. Which is 5,000 years old. My particular program was very heavily influenced by Ayurveda. So I had that little extra component and we learned about pathology and we do deeper studies in anatomy and physiology.
Dorothy: And that’s very different than what we think of in the medical world, because, what little bit I remember when I was doing yoga and when I taught it for a very short time, it, it really had to do with knowing the different functions of the body and how it all comes together and, uh, I had a great, great teacher who was very much into making sure we understood why we were doing certain things, and that was so helpful.
I think I told you I’m I’ve been out of my practice for a while and you said, Oh no, you’re, you haven’t, you’re still a yogi or something like that. And that, it made me feel so good because, you know, life gets in the way a lot of times with anything that we’re doing. And I, [00:07:00] and just meeting you, and I have to tell you, I picked back up my little morning practice.
It’s not a big deal yet, but, but you know, I haven’t been real balanced. I haven’t been, you know, it’s so, uh, what’s the word, it’s like a metaphor, because when I, when I can get back into my balancing exercises, I feel more balanced. And I, and I know that may not make any sense to a lot of people, but it’s true.
Nancy: Right.
Dorothy: And when I go back into my belly breath and my, you know, those things that I know how to do, come on, but have forgotten and find myself breathing up here all the time. That’s hard on the body. That’s hard on our nervous system.
Nancy: Well, and there’s so much about the breath, the awareness. And really, if you think about it, the big difference between exercise and yoga is that level of awareness. And the more we practice, the more we become attuned to our bodies, which I think is [00:08:00] very, very important. I mean, especially we’re talking about breast cancer. When we notice changes in our bodies, It’s very important to be attuned, to recognize the change, and then also to be, you know, aware enough to do something about it, to go have it checked out, to be sure it’s okay. And that’s, you know, a really big thing.
Dorothy: So how did you find your cancer?
Nancy: I actually found it myself. And, um, I noticed a lump in my breast and I really wanted to kind of ignore it for a while as, you know, I had young kids, we were getting ready for a vacation, all these things are going on. It’s the beginning of the summer. But I spoke with a friend and she said, you know, why, why are you waiting?
So I thought, okay, she’s right. So I went in and I had it checked. And this is what, I think my, one of my biggest lessons from my experience is you have to learn to advocate for yourself. I went in, I had, um, uh, [00:09:00] ultrasound and a mammogram. I saw a healthcare provider and I was misdiagnosed. You know, I was told that, you know, no, this is nothing to worry about. Come back in a year. And so I really wanted to think that was, you know, okay, cause I had things to do, but it kept bothering me. And I, and it was just, this nagging thing at the back of my mind that, you know, you really need to go take care of this. So I did end up going back and I saw my, my usual doctor and she looked at me and said, I don’t care what this is. It needs to come out.
And this was Friday afternoon because weird things always happen on Friday afternoon when you can’t do anything about it, right? Um, and when I got up to the front desk to make an appointment to see a surgeon, they said, we have an appointment for you at 9 a. m. Monday morning. And I knew in that [00:10:00] moment that I was in trouble. Um, so that, that was my first clue, my first hint. Yeah. Yeah.
Dorothy: Oh, I can just imagine all the things that were going through your head. How old were your children then?
Nancy: Um, my daughter was in 6th grade and my son was in 8th. No. He was in sixth, she was in fourth.
Dorothy: So you had young children, all the, all of the demands that women have going on at that time. And you were young yourself.
Nancy: I had young children, I owned a yoga studio at the time, um, so I was working that and um, there was a very busy, very healthy lifestyle, you know. And then, um, all of the sudden, I’m perfectly healthy, except I have cancer.
Dorothy: Right. And that, that is one of those, uh, odd things that we hear all the time. You know, I, [00:11:00] I, I go crazy when I hear people saying, Oh, well, I just didn’t exercise enough, or I wasn’t eating right. That has nothing to do with anything. I mean, it helps if you do. Absolutely, but at the end of the day, cancer is going to be there, it’s going to be there. So, you can’t waste energy blaming anything or anyone, especially yourself, when you have that diagnosis. So, now that’s been many years ago, did you, what kind of treatment did you have?
Nancy: Um, well, I opted to treat very aggressively because when I was diagnosed, I was always already stage 3b. So I have known since then that if I ever have a recurrence, I have stage 4 cancer. So I, um, had a bilateral mastectomy. I had chemotherapy. I had, um, Radiation, um, I was on Herceptin, and then I was on Tamoxifen.
Dorothy: So, and this was [00:12:00] 20 years ago? 25?
Nancy: 18, um, in December.
Dorothy: Wow. Well, congratulations. I mean, you know, I always love it when we have long term survivors because that is what this is all about, is surviving.
Nancy: Right.
Dorothy: And, and we don’t want people to be afraid, uh, oh well, I’m not going to make it anyway, because that just, that isn’t the norm anymore. We’ve really, have made a lot of changes there.
Nancy: Yeah, and I think that that’s one of the things that I always try to do when I, when I hear someone has a diagnosis. I always reach out, because I want people to know that there are long term survivors.
Dorothy: Yes.
Nancy: Um, and that I’m one of them, and just to, you know, offer any kind of help or support I can. Um, because it is such a frightening experience to go through.
Dorothy: What was it your doctor told you when he found out you were a yoga instructor? I love that story.
Nancy: I know. So my oncologist, the first time we were getting to know one another [00:13:00] and he said, Oh, you’re a yoga teacher. And I said, yes. And he said, that’s great. You have everything you need to get through this. And the nurse was like, yeah, you do. And I just, I didn’t really believe it at the time. Um, But he was right. He was absolutely right. All of the practices, all of the tools that I had, it’s not that they were going to make the symptoms better or the treatments better or my cancer go away, but they did help me to handle the situation, which, you know, it was really a, basically a year long process. Um, even a little bit longer after that, because I did opt to have my breasts reconstructed.
Dorothy: Well, I can, I can see how that would help, but how, put it in different words for our audience. What, what exactly did it help you do, or get through, or change your body, or [00:14:00] what, what was the difference?
Nancy: Well, I think part of it is, um, part of, Practicing a long term practice is that you start to develop a certain level of acceptance of whatever is happening You don’t ignore, you don’t necessarily ignore it. You don’t necessarily try to force any change on it, but you just can sit with it. So being able to sit with it and just, you know, think to, to give yourself the time to rest, to, um, to just not force yourself to do anything. I met a lot of people who, who really pushed their way through cancer. Um, that wasn’t going to work for me.
Um, because I was exhausted, you know, that stage of your life, you’re tired. But also I continued my practice, but because I had developed that level of self awareness, I soon realized, you know, my practice isn’t going to be [00:15:00] the same everyday. And certainly the entirety of my practice was just to show up at my mat and stay in Child’s Pose for 2minutes. Cuz that’s all I really felt like I could do that days. And then other days when I went in and sat down on my mat I felt like I could do a more, strenuous practice. So I had a better understanding of that awareness. There was one point where I kind of had a panic attack in an MRI and of course you can’t like get up and run, right?
So I started practicing some breathing techniques and so just focusing on the breath for 20 minutes. Just breathing in and breathing out and relaxing on the exhalation and that’s what got me through that, that panic.
Dorothy: Right.
Nancy: Once you do that and it works you realize you can do it again and again and again. So if bad news comes, you can breathe through that, and you’re going to be okay, and you’re going to be calm enough to figure [00:16:00] out what your next step will be, and, and sometimes just, you know, the, the meditation on healing your body, and knowing that your body can heal itself, because, I mean, I’m sure, I know you’re aware, the treatment sometimes feels like it, it’s, it’s the worst part.
Dorothy: The worst part. Right. But don’t you think our, our, um something you just said made me realize that because you’re so aware of your body, and the yoga puts you in a different state, it does, then the body can do what it’s supposed to do.
Nancy: Right. And a lot of it is bringing awareness. equilibrium into the nervous system. So, you know, there’s, there’s, in our society in particular, with a lot of my clients, they kind of get stuck in hyperdrive with their nervous system. So, when they do finally slow down to do [00:17:00] some kind of relaxation, they might reduce some of that, you know, nervous, energy. But they don’t always come down from that state of relaxation on a regular basis. So it’s constantly a exercise in bringing that, stimulation to a manageable level. Whereas, the ideal thing is that we’re always at that even state with our nervous system. And as we’re living here, we’re building up our, our resources, our personal resources, so that when there is a challenge, you know, we might have a spike in the nervous system. Um, but then we have the tools to sort of like mitigate that and bring ourselves, ourselves back down to equilibrium, equilibrium. Um, we might have a dip in energy, a dip in our nervous system. Um, uh, regulation, but then we can also bring it back up to that neutral state again.
Dorothy: So [00:18:00] Nancy, the other part that I heard was you gave yourself permission just to go to the mat. I mean, that’s huge. You know, I think because we were also competitive and I’ve got to do this and I’ve got to do that. I, I do think our greatest competitions within ourself, you know, Oh, I could do this yesterday, but I didn’t do it today. And we start all that beating up on ourselves or whatever, but you gave yourself and your practice gave, gave you that, what, understanding that that’s, that was as much as you were going to do and that was fine.
Nancy: Well, it’s, it’s the understanding, it’s the, you know, the value of a practice, and, and this is why we call it a practice, not a perfect, right? The value of the practice is that you show up every day. Not everybody makes it every day, but you show up as often as you can to just be [00:19:00] there and then you allow your practice to unfold.
And it takes practice to get to that point. And then it also takes acceptance, you know, sitting there on your mat for five minutes, um, asking yourself the questions, how do I feel today? You know, what do I have going on later? Do I need to conserve my energy or can I, you know, really go all out and take a nap afterwards?
Or do, am I just really so tired today that I just need to rest? Maybe I just do Shavasana that day. And it’s giving yourself permission to make those decisions and based on the acceptance of where you are that day.
Dorothy: So explain to us that pose.
Nancy: Okay. So child’s pose is when you— or Shavasana?
Dorothy: Both of them.
Nancy: Okay. Child’s Pose is when you’re, um, on the ground, on your knees, folded over with your forehead on the ground or on a block or a cushion. And, um, you can have your arms extended forward, which. is a little more [00:20:00] energizing, or you can tuck your arms around your body, which is a really relaxed pose. And it’s kind of like the fetal position, but you’re resting on the ground.
That little bit of pressure on the forehead is very calming for the nervous system, so you just stay there and breathe. And that’s Child’s Pose. It’s a very, it’s a very good pose for relaxation at any time. And then Shavasana is called the Corpse Pose. So it’s lying on your back with your arms and your legs sort of like rolled out to the side so that everything can just sort of relax and melt into the ground.
And, um, Shavasana is always a nice way to sort of bring all your energy in at the end of the practice and allow the energy to move through your body and sort of integrate all the benefits of your practice. So, and it also can be done at any time.
Dorothy: Of course, you always look forward to it when you’re in a class. That’s going to be our last thing to do. But, but even, I think it’s amazing [00:21:00] that sometimes we can’t even relax then. And, and there is there are things you can do to help your body even relax deeper and deeper. Uh, so many things that yoga can teach us.
Nancy: Right. And that’s part of my goal as a yoga therapist. When I work with someone is to help them build up what I call their yoga toolbox. So when I have someone, uh, in, in a session who, you know, wants to do an extended shavasana or a yoga nidra, you know, I walk them through, um, a guided relaxation. And so, part of what I’m doing is I’m teaching them how to relax different parts of their body progressively, until their whole body is relaxed.
That’s a tool that they can take with them, that they can use at any time. Um, the breath exercises in an MRI, that’s something that someone can take [00:22:00] with them. Um, and it doesn’t require, equipment or a gym or anything like that. But these are life lessons. Um, when we talk about taking yoga off the mat, that’s the kind of thing that we’re talking about.
Dorothy: Right.
Nancy: And there are things that can support our, ourselves, our nervous system, our health on all levels. Um, and they’re, they’re easy. Yeah, they’re easy.
Dorothy: Yes, hearing you talk about it. Some are just like the forward fold. What’s the real name for that?
Nancy: The standing forward fold? Um, I just call it standing forward fold.
Dorothy: I know, but that one alone can help you. I mean, I’ve been in my office many times and just had to stop and do that.
Nancy: Right.
Dorothy: Because that will get you centered again.
Nancy: Yeah.
Dorothy: You know, and it’s, it’s like, uh, the tree pose will help you get balanced. But, [00:23:00] you know, I learned a long time ago, I don’t have to do the whole tree pose if I can just get myself to stand still and, and, you know, move that one leg out a little bit.
I, I know, I know you know what I’m talking about, but if I wish I could convey to the audience how it’s, it’s almost empowering. It’s, but it’s also, gosh, your body could do this. It, it is so, um, it’s almost like a, a, um assurance that you’re here, and your body’s strong, and you can do certain things. And even when you can’t, there’s no judgment. It’s just, this is not my day to do that.
Nancy: Yeah, and that’s one of the beautiful things about yoga, is that anyone can practice yoga. And, um, you just have to have the right guidance.
Dorothy: Mm hmm.
Nancy: Um, And so a lot of people, you know, [00:24:00] automatically when I tell them what they do, they’re like, Oh, I could never do yoga. I have an 86 year old client. Her yoga practice doesn’t look like somebody else’s yoga practice. It’s different. But we work a lot on breath. We work a lot on gait. We work on fall prevention also, being aware in her body. And we talk about lifestyle, because as a yoga therapist, that’s a big part of, you know, how much water are you drinking and what kind of food are you eating?
Because we can make choices about those things as well. Not just the way we move our bodies, but it is very, uh, empowering to know that you can show up for the mat for your practice and it doesn’t necessarily have to look like someone else’s.
Dorothy: Right.
Nancy: And this is why I always encourage people if, if you go to a yoga class that’s too much or too hard, go to another one. It’s like the, you know, the breakfast aisle at the grocery store. There’s [00:25:00] 500 boxes of cereal and you might pick one that you don’t like, but then you have 499 other boxes to try. So there’s all styles of yoga. There’s all styles of teachers. And if you want to learn more about the deeper practices, yoga therapy is a great way to do that.
Dorothy: So when someone goes into yoga therapy, are they in it forever? Or is it a short? I mean, I know everybody’s different, but how long do you normally spend with someone?
Nancy: Well, it’s, it really varies. I have one client that I’ve worked with for five years. Um, I work with him and his wife. I’ve been working with her for, I think, three years now.
Um, and then I’ve had people who came to me who wanted to, you know, prepare for a, a hiking trip. Or someone who was doing some kind of athletic event, they wanted to go in and work on their stretching, to [00:26:00] sort of counteract all these extreme sports that they’re doing. Some people come to me, you know, for sleep disturbance or anxiety. So they may find the tools that they need to help with that fairly quickly. Um, they may also find that once they start sleeping better, there’s something else maybe behind that, that they want to work on.
So it really depends. It really depends.
Dorothy: And just what’s going on and you’re, and you’re with people individually.
Nancy: Individually. So when someone comes to me, um, I offer a 30 minute free consultation over the phone and that gives me an opportunity to talk to them, hear their story, kind of figure out what it is that they are hoping to achieve. Um, a lot of times they’re just curious, right?
Um, and then, you know, then I can, by the end of the call, can, can say, well, here are some ideas, some avenues I think we might take. [00:27:00] Um, and then, you know, the next time we get together, I kind of have a plan. But the, um, after that phone call, if they want to proceed, then I have an intake form and that intake form asks about lifestyle and, um, medical history and, um, things like that, that give me a better idea of the overall person because that’s who I’m treating. I’m not, we are all so much more than our diagnosis. We’re so much more than our challenge at the time. We’re a whole person. So I use that information to kind of get an idea of, of, you know, what their life looks like on a daily basis. And then when, of course, when they come in, I can really look at their, their physicality.
And, you know, posture is a really big thing. Um. which I think since COVID, because everyone was home, like sitting on their couches all the time and working, you know, environments that were different. A lot of people come to [00:28:00] me with back pain and it’s things that we can really relatively easily take care of just by focusing on their posture and strengthening their back and their core.
And then, you know, they can take those tools with them.
Dorothy: How does someone find you?
Nancy: I am on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and they just can shoot me a message or an email. I also have, of course, a newsletter that I’m more than happy to send out to anyone and call me.
Dorothy: So you, this is not something that you’d have to have a referral from a physician or anything? No.
Nancy: No, not at all. And also just to, now that you bring that up. As a yoga therapist, I can work with a physician or work with a different kind of therapist and share notes and information if that’s what the client wants to do. Um, and we really, you know, highly encourage that because as a profession, we want to [00:29:00] really be that support, you know, for, for clients who also have, you know, they’re going through medical issues.
Dorothy: Well, how fascinating. So here you are, 18 years out.
Nancy: Yes.
Dorothy: And now helping so many people find a better way of managing whatever’s going on in their life, as well as healing. I, I just think, uh, I think our bodies can do so much more if we just know how to get it in that frame of, it’s not just even mind. It’s a being.
Nancy: It is, and I think, you know, when we really boil it down, it’s having enough love for ourselves to believe that we deserve to do these things for ourselves, to support ourselves in this way. And that includes, you know, the medical things that we have to go through and all the other ways that we support ourselves through whatever challenges we’re going through. But it [00:30:00] comes down to loving ourselves enough.
Dorothy: Yes. Oh, that’s great advice. Gosh. Thank you so much for being with us, Nancy. And we’ll put all of your information on our notes and I know people will just really, really be happy that they even found out there’s such a thing as this. Thank you for being with us today.
Nancy: Absolutely. Thanks for having me.
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