Dorothy: [00:00:00] Hi, I’m Dorothy Gibbons, CEO and co founder of The Rose. What happens when a financially stable and well connected family experiences the issues of accessing care through the American healthcare system? Saul Valentin’s wife nearly lost her life due to red tape. Their family had questions and oftentimes felt alone during their journey to recovery.
Access to care is an issue, whether you’re wealthy, poor, or anywhere in between. And this couple felt it, but they persisted and she survived. Saul serves on the Board of The Rose and works as one of the most influential architects in Texas. During this episode, you’ll learn how his family’s move to Texas reshaped his life, the harrowing path to get his wife an organ transplant, and why it’s important to pay it forward.
Let’s Talk About Your Breast, a different kind of podcast presented to you by The Rose, the breast center of [00:01:00] excellence and a Texas treasure. You’re going to hear frank discussions about tough topics. And you’re going to learn why knowing about your breast could save your life. Join us as we hear another story and we answer those tough questions that you may have.
So you’ve been on The Rose board for about a year and I know that this was a little different avenue for you. Normally you’re in education or—
Saul: The arts.
Dorothy: The arts, yes.
Saul: It’s definitely a totally different, um, board involvement in the community in Houston for me.
Dorothy: And when, when we talk about your involvement in the community, where we are talking about anywhere I go that I say, do you know Saul?
Yes, we know Saul. You know, you’ve worked very hard to build a community here in Houston that, of bringing people together and, and [00:02:00] finding the, the common ground of different people so that we can really help each other. We’re in the world did you get that kind of passion?
Saul: It just happened kind of organically, the way that we, um, got involved in Houston was not, Oh, a master plan.
And this is what, absolutely. We just, you know, um, got involved on a daily basis, kind of followed some of our, um, passions and things that were, uh, important to us at the time. And as our lives change, we. kind of change also in what we get involved in. It just happened. Um, it wasn’t something that, um, that we plan and—
Dorothy: So, when you talk we, are you talking the we of Saul’s family?
Or are you talking the we of your family at work?
Saul: No, uh, we, uh, as my wife and I, uh, [00:03:00] you know, and we try to raise our son to get involved and he gets involved, but, um, yeah, my wife Lisa’s always been kind of there next to me and, um, in front of me, leading me and pulling me into different directions too, so it’s been a team effort.
Dorothy: You’re in a community event. When you’re at one of these hundreds of things that you attend and support, and I do mean hundreds, how do you, how do you know who needs to connect with who?
Saul: Just listen. When you have conversation and you listen, um, you tend to pick what is driving this people at that time because there are different needs that everybody has at any given time.
Um, and some of the people that I kind of opened doors for me to be involved in Houston kind of taught me that it’s all about being a connector. Um, and people remember that.
Dorothy: When did you [00:04:00] come to Houston?
Saul: It was 1997. We moved here from San Antonio, Texas. Um, we moved here for, for work, for, um, a position in, um, an architecture, international architecture firm that I was part of.
It was kind of a different move for, for my wife because I have been, I’m Puerto Rican and we moved to San Antonio. I went to school up in Dallas area, went back to San Antonio. So we lived in Maryland. So we were used to moving around and being in different places and adjusting. My wife was not necessarily a person’s — there’s a change.
Dorothy: Very much. Yes. Yes. Because that is a big difference. So speak to coming to the United States. I know you feel pretty strongly about the importance of everyone having a chance and everyone being a part of the community. Talk a little bit about that to us. [00:05:00]
Saul: We’ve been blessed and in many ways we’ve gone through our struggles, but it’s always about paying it forward and that connection that we were talking about earlier and Uh, it is paying it forward to because it’s not only about donating time or donating money, but people need an introduction to this person or that person or an issue that they’re having, you know, so it is very important to do that.
When we first moved here, um, I guess in 1987 to San Antonio, um, I had just graduated high school a little early. I was, I guess, 16 and, um, We ended up, I ended up going to to to college at that time. Uh, I was not only a culture shock, but just generational. I was not ready for that. But anyways, it happened and it was really interesting.
My family moved here instead of just saying, hey, let’s [00:06:00] just send them to school up and Texas and Dallas. My mom is in the health care industry. She’s a retired R. N. So she was a nurse director of this hospital. She decided to let that job go. And, uh—
Dorothy: So they left Puerto Rico and came here?
Saul: To follow me. So, you know, at the time I really did not understand what that meant.
My dad had many businesses. He sold them all and he moved to to San Antonio with us and he moved first. Got us all set up. We moved second. three or four weeks later. Um, but I didn’t understand what that meant. Um, until, you know, I got older and have my own kids and the sacrifice that that means, you know, asking me to give up everything that we have here and move somewhere else because my son, my son ended up going to New York. I was not going to move to New York because he was going there. So that’s what happened. [00:07:00] My mom ended up working for the VA and blah blah blah and retired here in Houston. But yeah, it was something that, that we did. So, so that kind of started it all.
Dorothy: So Saul, you’ve been the chairman of Avance. You’ve also been chairman of Lone Star College Foundation. Advisory board in the Houston Arts Alliance; board member of Texas Association of Businesses, and I want to talk about that for just a minute. But in all of these board positions, and they go on and on, and I mean that with, with all respect, and I know what it means to sit on a board. At one time I was sitting on five, and I realized at the same time, and I realized that was not, the way the best choice.
So I know what it takes, and I know how important the board is to The Rose. When you assume that position, I know this sounds like a, probably a very silly question, but you’re a volunteer. You know, you don’t get paid for any of this. And you commit a lot of time to it. So just in a nutshell, [00:08:00] what does being on a board mean to you?
Saul: Making a difference. I’m paying it forward. Nutshell.
Dorothy: So you really believe in this paying it forward. Because of the people that opened doors here?
Saul: Because of the people that opened doors here, but because we’re blessed, you know, if you had told me, um, and my wife and I talk about this all the time, if you had told me that I was having, I was going to have an opportunity to sit in all this different boards and have an opportunity to be influential for whatever costs, um, I would have been like, yeah, maybe not, you know, I don’t know.
And you know, and and here we are. So I have this immense sense of responsibility to make sure that we provide opportunities, opening doors, um, advice, mentoring, whatever the case is all the time. That’s just what drives me.
Dorothy: But you’re first a businessman. [00:09:00] Do you see yourself as at first a businessman after family man?
Let’s put that over here for a minute.
Saul: I never really, uh, sat down and, and looked at it that way. And I guess you’re absolutely right. We have a very, thank God, successful business that allows me to do what I do and be involved. And, and I have a, an amazing business partner that, uh, affords me the opportunity to do what I do.
But he also believes in it, which is why we are kind of really awesome team. Makes
Dorothy: such a difference. Now, you’re gonna have to tell me what you did.
Saul: So, we are in, we have an, an, an architecture firm, and um, we have a project management firm, and we started the company strictly focused on institutional clients, mostly in education.
Um, so we have worked for the likes [00:10:00] of Lone Star College, San Jacinto College, University of Houston, Texas A& M, St. Thomas, and many, many, many charter schools and school districts throughout the state of Texas. Um, and probably around nine years ago or so, we, um, diversified the business into, um, the private, uh, Uh, development side, just private businesses.
So we do all kinds of fun projects, restaurants and marble slabs and work with Starbucks and great cookies of America and all that kind of stuff.
Dorothy: Oh, all the big names.
Saul: It’s pretty cool stuff. So that’s kind of what allows me to, to, to, to be part of all this different organizations.
Dorothy: But you know when people think of an architectural firm, or— but you go in, or at least this is the impression I’ve had from you, that when you’re building something, you’re really building it for the [00:11:00] people that are going to be in it.
I hear you talk about that. And I thought, that’s so odd. I thought it was just a building.
Saul: No, um, I see our firm as a translator of the vision and the needs of that client. We are educated, knowledgeable and experts in what we do. But this is not our building. We know what it takes to make sure that the building complies with code, stay standing as a legacy.
But this has to be a vision off that Nonprofit organization or institutional client. Um, so, so we just, that’s the way I see it. As a, you know, we’re translators. We take your thoughts, your vision, and put it into documents that can be constructed.
Dorothy: Saul, that is very hard to even get your head around. This, this [00:12:00] is a little different approach, isn’t it?
Saul: Um, Yeah, uh, just because we see ourselves as a kind of a more boutique-ish type of architecture firm. Um, you know, we, we don’t get in and out and pull some documents that are, uh, that we did on a previous job and apply it to the next one. And, uh, so, so we, we work with some really good clients that allow us to, to, to do that for them.
Dorothy: So once again, it’s, it’s being that connector.
Saul: That’s right.
Dorothy: When you get back down to it. And I know, uh, you had one of my staff members recently at a huge function for one of your social or association that you’re a part of.
Saul: Um, the AIA and that was a very interesting, uh, approach because they were looking for to make a connection [00:13:00] between the Houston community and the AIA and diversity and in the workplace. And it’s easy to make that connection. And to me, it was very, very, very rewarding to be a small part of making that connection. And that happened because I knew that when these two organizations met each other, I just needed to get out of the way.
Um, because it was, it was amazing what happened and, and, um, yeah, made me really, really proud to be part of that.
Dorothy: Oh, and we were so proud to be there. My goodness. That was such an opportunity. We don’t often have that kind of opportunity, Saul. So, you know, thank you again. But I know what Jessica, and she’s the one that, that presented to your group, uh, came back with was, do you know how much it takes to really— build a hospital or a health [00:14:00] center or she said we were talking about the diversity talking about what people need to get well, and she was just amazed. You know, that was that was a fascinating— We don’t think about that, Saul. You know, we don’t even, we just go to a place.
Saul: Yeah, it really is interesting. Um, One of our partners that we were working with to put that event together is HKS. It’s a large international, uh, healthcare firm. We’re working with them right now in, um, the next expansion of LBJ hospital. Um, and it is amazing the time that it takes to plan interview talking about community involvement.
Uh, we have had over a dozen, uh, And have meetings with different communities throughout [00:15:00] the city.
Dorothy: To build this hospital.
Saul: Yes. You know, the hospital is going to be about probably a 1.2 billion dollars project.
Dorothy: Wow.
Saul: Billion, yeah. With a B. And there’s a referendum going out in November for that, but this hospital is going to add about 230 new, uh, beds to that current hospital is going to create— it, uh, it’s going to make it a Trauma One center. Right now I think it’s been top only, but they’re going to extend it that they’re going to be dealing with, uh, all kinds of, um, heart attacks instead of having to refer them and send them somewhere else. So, I mean, they’re really going out, but they’re also taking the time to educate the community about what’s going to happen and when it’s going to happen.
So this project is so complicated. It’s, you know, we started working on this a year ago and almost a year ago [00:16:00] and it’s not going to be done until 2028. So it’s, it takes a couple of years before we get there.
Dorothy: Oh my goodness. Yeah. But I will tell you, If ever a community needed a Ben Taub and a new LBJ, it is the Houston community. We serve so many underinsured, uninsured people who, you know, they are our lifeblood. And we’ve got to have a place for them to go. I know from The Rose’s point of view, in, especially in our beginning years, um, they were the only ones that would work with our ladies who didn’t have insurance. And, you know, here you are diagnosing someone with breast cancer and you have nowhere to send them.
That, that just was one of the heartaches that we really had to, to work around. Thank God for Ben Taub. Thank God for the great doctors there who go to other hospitals or really are from other hospitals and then all of a sudden the other hospitals said, Oh yeah, well, [00:17:00] we’ve worked with Rose patients and they started taking us.
So, you know, it is that. Build upon, build upon, build upon.
Saul: Yeah, it really is interesting and funny. You mentioned that because the leadership of Ben Taub and LBJ really, truly believes, uh, in having the right resources in the community and expanding. This is a legacy project that I’m very, um, excited and proud to be part of.
Um, it’s going to be around for, for a long, long time. So, uh, the fact that we are part of this team, it’s amazing to me, but, uh, the leadership, um, of the team and the leadership of the Harris Health, uh, group, it’s, it’s beliefs in the cause and really pushes forward.
Dorothy: I know that when you first came to visit with us, you shared a life experience that you’d had with your wife that really was really [00:18:00] profoundly, uh, tough and reflective of what so many of our women go through.
And that has to do with access to care. You’re the most connected person I know in this city. I mean, really, honestly, I’m not just telling you that, you are. But when Lisa had a health issue, you discovered that there really is a need to be able to move through this system. Can you share some of that story?
Saul: It’s kind of funny how things work and how you learn lessons throughout your life. Um, and, and that was one of those moments where we realized it does not matter how connected or how, or it does matter, you know, insured and not insured or when, when you’re going through a life changing moment in the health of you or yourself or your family, uh, we found [00:19:00] ourselves, um, really needing, um, to think about what we were doing and what we were going through.
And internally it was a tough situation for us. We did not know, um, where to go and what to, where, where to, where to turn to. We had some great doctors and, and for a year and a half we were dealing with this sickness and they did not realize and they couldn’t figure out where Uh, what was happening with, with Lisa.
And it just so happens that the doctor suggested, Hey, come and talk. You know, I, I am done. I’m out of ideas. I don’t know what to do. Thanks to some, um, really good mentors and friends, some doors were open and we were able to go visit with a certain doctor and he’s the one that tried to help us. And, and at the end of the [00:20:00] day, Um, suggested that we go talk to a transplant institute group at, at Baylor.
And that’s what kind of started the whole process. Once we got there, things change direction in the, in the, treatment in the way and what they were looking for. But for a year and a half, almost two years, we, you know, we didn’t know if Lisa was going to make it. We didn’t know, uh, what was happening and we had right insurance, you know, and nothing to do with that. We had access to certain, you know, doctors because of some, but we were still alone. It was just us. We, you know, we, we didn’t have access to people that were going through it or that could share or hold your hand. And so it was a really, really tough two years. And then the other two [00:21:00] years after that, it was almost a total of four years.
Once we were part of the institute and the transplant institute, uh, that whole team from, Dr. Jalal and Dr. Gause. I mean, there were just amazing people and so good at what they did, you know, and they put Lisa, um, after many interviews and the whole procedure that they take, it’s not that simple to get into that transplant list, but we still didn’t know, you know, what it meant and how you get access. And in the middle of the treatment, insurance company decided that they did not want to— they had a dispute with the different hotel— hospitals and they were not covering that hospital anymore. And we’re like, okay, what, how is this going to affect us? And so having access to knowledge [00:22:00] is so important and we, this is, didn’t have it at times. And we were lucky, because we had some friends that were able to open some doors for us. And still we didn’t feel that knowledge was enough for, for us. We were going through some, um, it was really tough.
Dorothy: Well, besides just the seriousness of the disease and the illness, and any transplant patient will tell you, um. You’re just, you are out there by yourself so many times. It takes a long, long time to get on the list, a long time to find a match, longer time to the body, to accept it. And I’m just amazed. Of course, Lisa is fireball anyway. I can’t imagine her ever being slowed down, but, but that [00:23:00] kind of surgery certainly makes a huge difference.
Saul: Yeah, it does. It’s funny you mentioned that because I call her Energizer Bunny.
She, she has so much energy and, and before, um, anybody could tell you that knows her, she would, she would drive me. And when she wasn’t driving me, that’s when I knew there was something there. And for those four years, she still, she still pushed and pushed and pushed all the way, all the way to almost the end, which we thought she was going to leave us, you know, in December.
But she got a call for for liver literally as we were getting ready. Um, to make plans for her not to be here with us.
Dorothy: Oh, so I didn’t realize that part of the story.
Saul: Yeah. We even bought a dress for her. Yeah. [00:24:00] Which I don’t care to see that dress. I want to, but, but it, it, it was, uh, it was hard. It was really, it was really hard.
And so, so when I say we’re blessed, I truly believe it. And you know, she calls her her rebirth. That was January 16. Um, It’s, uh, been two years now, maybe two and a half almost. So it was January 16th of 21. And, uh, and, uh, so that’s why I’m saying we’re, we’re, we’re lucky. You know, I, I have her with me and now, oh boy, is she back with energy driving me?
Uh, you see her. The thing is, if you see her and you don’t, you wouldn’t know. If we didn’t say anything, you wouldn’t know. But we have to say something because again, we’re blessed and right now I’m struggling with how can we think about helping those people that are going through [00:25:00] that transplant Institute, thinking about all the lessons and all the dark nights and, You know, all the stuff that we went through, how do, how can we minimize that pain for them and that struggle?
So her and I are kind of trying to think about how can we impact that the most?
Dorothy: Well, Saul, I think just you talking about it, like you said, and being open and here’s what we went through. I mean, there had to be times when you were ready to really wondering about what was going on and depressed.
Saul: It was, it was an interesting position to be in one that I’m not used to. I’m not wanting to give up. So Lisa calls it that I was in denial. I knew I was very well aware of what was happening, but I’m not gonna just give it up. So, so we went through it and um, [00:26:00] you know, My granddaughter is a huge factor in, uh, getting Lisa over that hump.
Dorothy: Oh, really?
Saul: I mean, she was a blessing. She, she came to us during COVID when Lisa was sick. So she drove, um, and gave Lisa all that extra energy that she needed to fight, uh, to, to be around her granddaughter.
Dorothy: Gosh, you’ve touched on so many things. First of all, you went through all this during COVID. And if I know from our patients that had to be the hardest time to ever be sick because they’re just, you didn’t have that normal support to go into the hospital with you even— I mean, it was a horrible—
Saul: I remember, um, Getting the first offer for the liver for Lisa and her, it was like a 2:30 in the morning and [00:27:00] waking up and having to figure out, you know, is she gonna accept the offer, is she not gonna accept the offer, what’s gonna happen and she accepted the offer so they said okay well you got 30 45 minutes to get here.
Um,
Dorothy: Yeah because we’re talking about an organ that is being kept moving or alive till that patient gets there. I mean, this is the other part of all of that that I had no idea. I didn’t realize it was so complicated. Just every step of the way, it’s, it’s, something could happen.
Saul: And I dropped her off. At St. Luke’s, Baylor, at like, I don’t know, 3:30 in the morning, in the emergency door, I couldn’t even go in. It’s like, okay, I’m going to drop her off to go get some labs or something. No. She was, I wasn’t sure if I was going to see her again. I wasn’t sure what it meant to go through the transplant. I didn’t, I, I, I, and then I had to drive myself [00:28:00] home and nevermind, it wasn’t about me, her, alone going through it. She wasn’t sure what she was walking into. So yeah, I added a whole level of stress and whole level of uncertainty to what was already an uncertain situation. So, um, but we learned a lot because, um, the next day about 20 hours later, she came home, uh, that was not a viable organ for her. So all that stress and all that, um, instead of looking at it as stress and oh my goodness, we, we just looked at it as a building block.
Okay. Now we know a little better. We went through that three times. Yeah. Three times was the charm. Um, literally. And in the middle of all that, um, she got diagnosed with cancer of the liver, which was going to be [00:29:00] replaced. But if you have cancer, they don’t do the transplant. So she, they, they got her out of the list and that was devastating for us, uh, for her. So we literally, I remember we literally just. Booked a flight and left the country and just went somewhere to just think and absorb and think through things. She came back and they treated those lesions that she had and they stopped growing and they put her back on the list. Three months later, this was December and she got another offer and it was no good as well.
That’s when we decided, okay, this is not happening. She was really sick. She couldn’t walk. Her body was retaining water, you know, all the time. So she had to have the [00:30:00] procedures to drain and all that. It was just, it was, it was pretty bad. I mean, Lisa was 46. So, so, but we’re, um, we’re blessed again and lucky.
And we got a call on January, uh, 15th and, um, that was, that was it. So somebody had to not be on this earth, you know.
Dorothy: Yeah.
Saul: To allow her to be here. So, we’re blessed and that’s why we have to pay it forward because, you know, how, how do you, how do you. How do you not?
Dorothy: I think anything you do at the Institute will be a blessing to whoever you talk to because I know one of the things about The Rose with her patient navigation, it, that is what it’s all about.
Certainly our, our ladies who don’t have resources, don’t have insurance, having that person with them just to say, this is the next thing. This is, [00:31:00] this is what it’s about to happen. You didn’t have that. You didn’t see that in your experience at all.
Saul: Not at all. And that, that’s my motivation to be part of The Rose.
That’s my motivation to, this is the first organization that I’m part of in healthcare focus. You know, I always been involved in education or in the arts or just in the community at large, but having an opportunity to really impact access and knowledge of the community at large for healthcare focus issues. It’s huge for us because of what we went through.
Dorothy: Right, right. So again, just for our listeners, here was someone very well connected, great insurance, wife becomes ill, serious illness, and lost. I mean, that’s, [00:32:00] that’s an excellent word. And still going to doctors, but no one had an answer for a year and a half, two years, and then when we do get the answer, it’s probably one of the hardest answers you’d had to deal with, because liver transplants just don’t happen easily, ever.
And I think you’ve shared something really important for our listeners. Y’all had to find some way to support each other and stay strong for each other, too. So many of, uh, our patients don’t have a lot of that. And that’s in, so we appreciate you sharing and coming to The Rose and, you’ve certainly, uh, I’ve heard that expression so many times, pay it forward.
But when you said it, when you showed some examples, I went, oh, well, you really are paying it forward. So what’s your dream for, I was going to ask you what’s your dream for your, your son, but I almost want to say, what is your dream for this Houston community?
Saul: [00:33:00] Houston is leading the nation as far as diversity. We are very much the epicenter of what I expect the rest of the nation to look like in the future. Um, that’s one of the motivations to be here in Houston. Um, and, and I just think that we have an opportunity to really create something special and, and being involved in creating access for healthcare or creating access for the education in arts or creating access to education.
Um, that was my motivation for the education involvement. It was creating a community that was educating and the future of our nation. Um, so, Having [00:34:00] involvement in all those three areas, to me, creates the foundation for Houston. If you have somebody that is educated, you know, and has a foundation to be a contributing member to society, workforce, you know, um, just advanced degrees, whatever.
The other one having access to arts, education and giving back and being part of that. And at the same time, having that access to health care, you know, I mean, that’s kind of a trifecta right there that would give anybody an opportunity to excel in life. You know, if you get sick and you have access and you’re educated and then after, you know, you’re educated at the same time you’re involved in knowledgeable about what’s going on in the arts too. I think you’re being poised to be a great member of [00:35:00] society.
Dorothy: Well, Saul, thank you so much for sharing Lisa’s story. Thank you, Lisa, for allowing us to use your story in, uh, this segment, because I was always so impressed that good health just means everything. And when we don’t have it, it certainly turns our life upside down.
Another way to encourage anyone listening to us that self care is big. You need to take care of yourself. Support is big. And you need, in essence, you need to really be curious and educate yourself. That’s what I see and you saw. You’re curious. You want to know about people. You want to know about, you know, whatever is going on in your community.
I think that being a part of community though has been part of your health care. Part of your mental health.
Saul: Absolutely. It’s definitely been part of my journey.
Dorothy: Yeah.
Saul: To stay grounded, connected, and well.
Dorothy: Yes, yes. Well we’ve so enjoyed having you on this episode Saul. My goodness. You’ve— [00:36:00] We could have gone at 10 different ways on everything that you said, and I appreciate you being so open, you know, not all of us have that ability to open up about those tough times in life.
Saul: It’s just been a journey that allowed us to grow. And if we can help somebody out there, if it’s just one person because of what we’re sharing, why not?
Dorothy: I think that is great. And all you have to do is Google this man. And if you want to talk to him, you can find him. Again, thank you so much, Saul. This has been a most eye opening episode.
So until next time, and we talk about your breast again. This is Dorothy Gibbons.
Post-Credits: Thank you for joining us today on Let’s Talk About Your Breasts. This podcast is produced by Freddie Cruz Creative Works, and brought to you by The Rose, visit therose.org to learn more about our organization. Subscribe to our podcast, share episodes with friends, and join the conversation on social media using [00:37:00] #Let’sTalkAboutYourBreasts. We welcome your feedback and suggestions. Consider supporting The Rose. Your gift can make the difference to a person in need. And remember, self care is not selfish. It’s essential.
