Dorothy: [00:00:00] What is meditation and why is it important to your health? That’s what today’s guest, Ashma Moosa is going to discuss with us. If you ever thought meditation was hard to do or you simply don’t know how to do it, you will discover how easy it is to move into a state of peace and also a state of mindfulness.
Now, how does someone turn personal trials into a source of strength for others? Ashma also talks about that. She’s a certified life coach and she uses her journey to lead support groups, offer encouragement and tools for others to overcome whatever they are struggling with in life.
When you subscribe to our show, you help us grow. Someone you know may need to hear this story. So please, share with your family and friends. And consider supporting our mission. Your donation can help save the life of an uninsured woman.[00:01:00]
Let’s Talk About Your Breast. A different kind of podcast presented to you by The Rose, the Breast Center of Excellence, and a Texas treasure. You’re going to hear frank discussions about tough topics, and you’re going to learn why knowing about your breast could save your life.
Ashma, thank you so much for being with us again today. It’s It’s wonderful to have you here.
Ashma: Thank you, Dorothy, for having me here today. It’s always a pleasure to do something for The Rose.
Dorothy: Ah, yes, you’ve always been a champion. Ashma is a board member, a two time cancer survivor, and some people would call her a spiritual director. Now, I know that’s a little stretch for you, Ashma, but, you know, you, you have your own support group. You are certified as a life coach. And that is not just a normal life coach, it’s someone who knows nutrition and health and [00:02:00] combines all of the well being of a person. But when I say spiritual director, it’s also because you’ve had your own road of challenges.
You know, when I think about what I know about you, you lost your mother at a very young age. Uh, you left your country to come to the US. You are trained as an RN, and you also had to go through an incredible trial to even have children.
Ashma: Yes.
Dorothy: Yes. How many miscarriages did you have?
Ashma: I had a total of seven pregnancies, and from that I got two beautiful children.
Dorothy: And they are beautiful.
Ashma: Yes.
Dorothy: But you’ve also, as I said, been a two time cancer survivor, one thyroid, one breast cancer. You almost saw your husband die through COVID.
Ashma: Yes. That was scary.
Dorothy: Oh, very scary. And now you’ve [00:03:00] said goodbye to your two, two children.
Ashma: Almost.
Dorothy: They’ve grown up. Yes. And you’ve had a career change. You’ve gone from being the office manager of a busy practice to being this person who is now coaching and leading your own support groups. And all of those things are about change, about re engineering ourself. And I, so when I say spiritual director, I’m talking to someone who comes with experience.
Ashma: Right.
Dorothy: There are times we really have to tap in to that other side of us.
Ashma: Absolutely. Yeah. You know, Dorothy, that’s exactly what I’m doing now is I’ve done what needed to be done in your life. You always have dreams that you, you know, you want to get married. You want to have kids. You want to be successful and, and, and, you know, God’s will, we’ve been able to do all of that.
And, um, now it’s completely a different journey, it seems like, but [00:04:00] whatever I’ve learned in the past, and all the challenges, and all the beautiful things that I have seen and done with my travels, met people, I can really, truly apply that and give what I have learned, it’s a gift.
Dorothy: Oh, yes.
Ashma: Okay, it’s a gift and I want to pass it on to other people. I don’t want to keep those, uh, secrets in my heart like, Oh, I did this, but I’m not going to share it with; No, I, I want to open up and I want to touch more people in my life and be able to make them a better person, sometimes it’s needed for them. Depends on what kind of person you come across.
You might come across a person that has never gone out of the world. And when I talk about my travels, they get so excited. Like, really, really? And that encourages them sometimes. Or sometimes I’ll talk to somebody in my support group. And I see how down in dark spaces they go into. And I try to lift them, but [00:05:00] really, you have to be in that dark space and you have to come out of it as well.
No one’s going to lift you out. So I give them the tools, how to do that, um, encourage them, follow up with them, making sure you don’t just talk to them and then you just drop the ball on them. You follow up and find out where they’re at with that.
Dorothy: And now this isn’t just a cancer support group. This is a support group for all types of different needs that, that a woman, particularly women—
Ashma: Women, women is my, of course, my soft spot. So I, uh, women draw to me, they feel, um, they feel safe talking to me. I always tell them whenever they’re starting to talk to me, they’re a little hesitant to talk to me. But when I tell them, listen, whatever you tell me here today, it stays in my heart and I take it to my grave.
It’s not going to be, you know, uh, spoken about. So you can, This [00:06:00] is your safe space and consider me as your friend or your, you know, advocate or your, whatever it is, I’m, I’m here to support you. You’re not alone. They want to hear that. They’re not, they’re not alone because with my own experience, I felt alone in those challenges. And I guess I was too, um, scared to tell other people about what I’m truly going, you know, what’s going on with me, with all these different challenges. But now when I look back, I feel like I wish I had reached out to somebody. Maybe, maybe that would have been a little bit of an easier journey.
Dorothy: Yes, yes, you learned that.
Ashma: Yes.
Dorothy: That lesson well, for sure. And even though you’re, you are counseling many women from many faiths, it is in your own community that you have, uh, [00:07:00] really established that sense of trust, which is very hard to do sometimes.
Ashma: It, it was, it was really hard. And actually that, uh, this vision of starting a support group started right after Covid. Um, we were noticing a lot of our community, um, members were coming into the mosque talking to our imam, uh, about the struggles they’re having. And some of the struggles were the saddest ones were with couples. And so that’s when um, you know, my, our leader, Sheikh Waleed, uh, asked me, he says, you know, maybe, maybe we, we should start a support group. And so I said, you know, I can, I can start a small one and let’s see how it goes. So we put the word out and I really didn’t think that people were going to show up at the support group. And I had 25 women showed up.
Dorothy: Oh my.
Ashma: So I thought to myself, one hour and I have to go through 25 women and be able to, you know—
Dorothy: Minister—
Ashma: Minister this and [00:08:00] understand. And this was just the beginning. So I basically had to sort of consolidate it so we could talk as a group. And the only question I asked was: what brings joy to your life? And we spent the whole entire hour and a half spending talking about how each one felt, what joy means to them in their life.
Dorothy: Oh, what a great question.
Ashma: Yeah. It’s a small question. It’s a small word, but it was a big conversation.
Dorothy: Yes, yes, certainly.
Ashma: And everybody walked out of there smiling.
Dorothy: Well, like you said, we need some safe place to be, some safe person to talk to.
Ashma: Yes.
Dorothy: And someone who’s non judgmental.
Ashma: Very much so.
Dorothy: Yeah, I think that is the key for any, any counseling that you ever have. Yes, you have to know you’re being heard.
Ashma: And I think, um, one of the greatest tools, um, that I learned from my, [00:09:00] training from my, um, being a parent is listen, listen to them. They’re going to give you clues on where the weaknesses are and then you can guide them and, and have a few goals for them that, Hey, we need to work on this, this, and this. These are your strengths, but these are your weaknesses. And usually the client, the person, the friend will tell you, and, when you listen.
Dorothy: When you listen, yes, not talk.
Ashma: It’s a very powerful tool.
Dorothy: Yes. So another very powerful tool that I’ve seen you talk about, heard, heard you, uh, mention is meditation.
Ashma: Yes. Mindfulness has been, um, It was introduced to me when I was diagnosed with my first cancer, um, the thyroid cancer, and I had a very close relative that came to visit me. And he was a very wise, spiritual person, and he was a good [00:10:00] listener. And he, he was a good observer. And so we spent a lot of time together. And when he was leaving, he told me, he says, you know, you would really benefit with you what you’re going through in this time in your life is maybe learning how to meditate.
And I thought, meditation? What is that? You know, like you always see that on TV, people are sitting there and they’re, you know, and for hours I’m like, I told him, I said, I don’t think that’s the solution. So he says, okay, you know, he says he taught, he, he talked a lot about it, but I wasn’t listening. I was just hearing what he was saying, but I wasn’t going to, you know, submit to that.
I had a lot of things going on. So he did leave a little, like a little write up on it for me. He says, you know, whenever you have time, just look through that. So I did. I was home alone and I thought, you know, let me just read what he, what this meditation is, right? So I went through it and it kind of, um, you know, it, it kind of hits the, [00:11:00] hits the spot, like what you’re going through. And it’s like telling you that these are the spots that need to be worked on, like, you know, being in the here and now, uh, being, enjoying the moment, being blissful. And my mind was in a hundred places when I was going through this diagnosis. And it was always in the future, like what’s going to happen to my kids? How am I going to get through this? Or in the past, I kept on saying like, what did I do wrong to get through this? All this craziness that goes on in one person’s mind. So when I started reading more about it and started to research, and he mentioned the place where I could go. It’s a safe space, it’s a space that he had been to as well, an area, and these centers are all over the world.
And at first I was a little hesitant, I’m like, and you have to dedicate 10 days of silent [00:12:00] meditation to learn this art. It’s like going to school, submitting yourself and saying, I’m going to put my phone away. I’m going to put my books away. I’m going to put everything away. I’m going to walk into this arena for 10 days without speaking and somebody else is going to take care of me.
Meaning, you know, they feed you a very healthy meal. Uh, there’s a, you know, instructor. There leads your meditations and you basically meditate for at least 10, 10 hours a day and break in between you have breaks, but your whole focus, your whole class is being mindful and it’s almost like a exercise and they know exactly where you’re at the first day, the second day, and they tell you at the end of the day, are you feeling this?
Are you feeling that? It was almost like a dissection of your brain. Okay. And [00:13:00] all the things that you had forgotten about, it all kind of surfaces and mindfulness is basically shutting off your mind and focusing on the breath. And you think it’s easy, but it’s not. The first day I had a hard time sitting down. Like, you know, I can’t do this. I, I, you know, I can’t, I’m feeling pain in my leg or, and they would keep saying that, you know, just ignore it. Promise, it’ll go away. The more you put attention to that, The more you’re going to feel uncomfortable and your mind is going to wander. So it was very difficult the first three days.
But the third day I was able to, you know, still, you know, sit still and focus on my breath. And when I started third or fourth day, when I really started focusing on my breath, I re— I became a humble and more grateful that I could actually hear my heart. [00:14:00] This heart continues to beat from the day you were born and you don’t even appreciate it.
So it kind of grounded me. Um, by the fifth day I could not sleep because I don’t know. I was wide awake. I was fresh. I couldn’t sleep at night, so I asked my instructor, I said, you know, I’m not able to sleep at night, but I’m rested, I feel great. He goes, your mind is so at rest that you probably don’t need any sleep.
So, um, it was a spiritual, emotional, physical, mental journey when I did this exercise for 10 days and not speaking to anybody. At first I thought it would be the hardest, I think that was the best thing I ever did.
Dorothy: But now, Ashma, I want to be [00:15:00] sure that not everyone has the luxury or has to go through that 10 days.
Ashma: No.
Dorothy: I know for you, that’s what gave you that extra grounding at a time that was very needed.
Ashma: Yes.
Dorothy: Because I, I really think the years that I was doing yoga and being an instructor, meditation, the part, that part of it was always the hardest for us to get into, to leave behind whatever we walked in with. But after you get used to it, it, you, uh, minutes, hours can go by.
Ashma: Yes.
Dorothy: I mean, it, it, and we’re, and I’m saying that to our listeners cause I don’t want you to think you have to go sit for hours on a Zafu and be still and all that because it can start with very little things. There are different kinds of meditation.
Ashma: Absolutely.
Dorothy: I think sometimes when we’re driving and our mind is really not involved in driving, which it should be, but it’s off going somewhere else if we’re not listening to something or on our phones.
Ashma: Right.
Dorothy: All of a sudden you’ll get this [00:16:00] idea or you’ll have this sense of well being come over you. You know, it is, it is when your mind is able to leave behind all that is going on.
Ashma: Absolutely.
Dorothy: What did we use? We used to call that something in yoga, uh— Monkey Mind.
Ashma: Yeah, Monkey Mind, it’s constantly going.
Dorothy: Yes, yes. And it was, the way I learned was always, you know, just say hello, acknowledge it.
Ashma: Yes.
Dorothy: Hello, acknowledge, goodbye. And pretty soon it’s gone. It’s just out of there.
Ashma: I think, uh, for me, to me, this, this, beautiful art that I learned. It was almost like a school for me for 10 days. And now that I have this art, um, but I, I now experience that I’m able to easily take myself from whatever busyness there is. And if I need some time away from it, I know how to do that. A lot of people don’t know how to do that [00:17:00] because they’ve never done it.
Dorothy: Right.
Ashma: But once you start doing it, it feels incredible. In the sense you are cleansing yourself. and putting yourself back into the element again instead of getting out of the element.
Dorothy: So there’s different ways to get into that space. You spoke of breathing. And is it counting your breaths, watching your breath? What—
Ashma: You know, um, there’s, I, what I like to do is because I’m a woman of, you know, faith and I like to, we have 99 names of, of our Lord. So I choose, and each name has an attribute. It means something. So I pick one that particular day that, that, you know, kind of sings to me or, you know, brings me closer to, uh, the divine. I pick that name and I just close my eyes and I focus on that and I chant that in my heart. [00:18:00] Sometimes it’s mercy. you know, or love, or you know, gratitude. There’s so many different names that the Lord has.
So when you choose to do that, you can use that Mantra, I guess you can call it. And just close your eyes and focus on that. Some people like music, soft music in the background. Guided meditation is great with, with a group when you’re doing that. So it distracts them away from other noises around. So the music is, is something settling, not anything loud or anything like that.
This could be the ocean or, you know, or sitting in front of the ocean. You just drift away, your eyes don’t have to be closed. You can meditate while you’re still watching the ocean, the waves.
Dorothy: Or just walking.
Ashma: Oh, yeah. Walking is like, I love to do that because that [00:19:00] gets you physically fit. Okay. You feel good about going out. You’re breathing the air, you’re getting out of your home. Sometimes the four walls can get to people. And then looking around for the little things, the natural things around you, that we don’t even notice. That is a form of mindfulness and relaxation, appreciation, and making your heart a little bit more humble.
Dorothy: Mm hmm, you know. Being grateful.
Ashma: Exactly.
Dorothy: Finding that, that place to be grateful. Do you take your group through meditation?
Ashma: Yes I do. Actually after our support group I always like to end it with um, usually I tell them that you came into this support group, I don’t know under what were you thinking or why you came here? But now I want you to close your eyes and [00:20:00] make an intention that how are you going to change that for yourself? It’s usually something that that’s bothering them, but I usually tell them make an intention of how you want to settle this in your heart and how you’re going to work towards it. So they make that intention, they close their eyes, and I usually guide them by just, because this is, some of them it’s the first time, so you don’t want to make it too complicated. So you just want to tell them to just breathe and focus on your breath.
Dorothy: So just focus on your breath.
Ashma: Breath, yes.
Dorothy: That’s hard to do. Like breathe in, breathe out.
Ashma: Yes, you have to breathe, of course. I show them how to breathe in, breathe out. Making sure they’re doing that because you don’t want to hold your breath. That’s very very important. But then, slowly calming down and focusing. Sometimes I’ll tell them, put your hand on your heart or the chest. So you can actually kind of do that little count, you know. Breathing in, breathing [00:21:00] out. Sometimes people need that.
Or, sometimes I’ve done, I did a meditation on looking at your hands and appreciating them. How many things do we, you know, being grateful for the hands that we have. And just focusing on the hands and looking at your lines and looking at your hands and seeing, you know, how many people you’ve touched, you know, it’s, it was very calming for people.
So I really think instead of, you know, it trains your mind to be in the present and being in the present is what we need to be. Oh, we need, we need to appreciate this moment because really, people with anxiety, people with things that they carry in their heart and they’re so heavy, it’s usually the past that’s bothering them.
They’re constantly thinking, is that going to come and come and help us? [00:22:00] No, it’s finished. It’s done. The future, you think, Oh, we want to do this, this, this, and this. And then you’re like, okay, we need to plan. You’re, you’re making your, your life busy for no reason, because it’s good to plan. I’m not saying, but don’t worry about what’s going to happen in the future.
Um, the more you do that, the more your mind stays here. It helps me with my prayers. How many times do we sit down to pray and our mind is wandering 20 places and we forget, okay, which, which verse was this?
Dorothy: Ooh. I think we’re all guilty of that.
Ashma: Yeah. So if you can get into that, that element, like I said, before you do something so meaningful, or even you’re talking to your spouse, how many times people talk to each other and they’re not listening to each other because they’re thinking about other things. They’re not giving that person and even my children, my children will sometimes catch me and say, Mom, are you listening? So [00:23:00] these are the small things that make a huge difference in how your mind can be trained to be in the here and now and it keeps you more happy.
Dorothy: And you know, Ashma, when I think about how you’re talking about faith and this has become a part of a practice within your own faith. Most, most faiths have some type of instruction about being still.
Ashma: Yes.
Dorothy: Be still and know I’m God. Be still and hear it is from within.
Ashma: Yes, absolutely.
Dorothy: You know, that, that’s I think what the power of meditation.
Ashma: Yes.
Dorothy: Is it allows you to go within.
Ashma: Yes.
Dorothy: And, and hear. Different things even for yourself.
Ashma: Yeah, and stop the chatter that’s going on. Um, I think all faiths encourage this and all great leaders have somewhere along the line, um, practice mindfulness. I know that our [00:24:00] prophet used to, uh, you know, Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, he used to go away into the mountains. for a few days to clear his heart because he had to deliver this message.
How is he going to do this? And, you know, of course there’s a story behind that and, you know, what happened in the mountain. But what I’m saying is even the greatest people that have to do the greatest work have to clear their mind and detach themselves so they can have a clear message given to them.
Dorothy: That is so true. The retreat that we take can be the other part of our strength.
Ashma: Absolutely. And I think we all need that. It’s okay to go on vacations with family and weddings and this and that, but I think you should have at least a once a year personal retreat with your loved one or maybe even alone. And [00:25:00] I’ve done that before and it’s, it really is soul searching.
Uh, sometimes you, or if you’re going into a different one from one journey to the other, it kind of almost, you put a, put an end to what you want to do, you know, we’re doing and now to, a new beginning.
Dorothy: So how can a busy career woman do that, really?
Ashma: You know, you can, you don’t have to spend ten days to go somewhere like I did, but you know, obviously that was a learning, um, retreat for me.
Dorothy: Right, that was preparation for you.
Ashma: Yeah, but even, like at the end of the day, you need to have, um, create your own safe space in your, within your home or wherever.
Dorothy: Do you have an altar or something like that?
Ashma: Yes, I do. I have, I, uh, you know, always, whenever we have bought a home, we always, I always dedicate one area as our prayer area where we go and pray. And, you know, I have my mats. Put your favorite things that you love that [00:26:00] makes you feel comfortable. That is your space. Put your books that you read that really mean something to you. Surround yourself with those kind of things and I think that should be your space at the end of the day.
Dorothy: And some people start their meditation at the beginning of the day.
Ashma: Beginning of the day, yes. I do mine at the end. My husband does it in the morning.
Dorothy: I do it in the morning. I just find it’s easier. But it also helps me to not wake up with that, you know, I do not look at my phone the first thing in the morning. I do not go to emails first thing in the morning. Because when I do, my day’s gone.
Ashma: Yeah, it’s distracted.
Dorothy: It’s, you are. But, and so I have found that it works for me. But it also works for me anytime I can get out in nature.
Ashma: Yes, absolutely.
Dorothy: Anytime I can.
Ashma: You just get into that zone.
Dorothy: Right, right. And it is so healthy. It is so good. It’s so, healing.
Ashma: It is. And just, you know, having your home [00:27:00] bright, open the windows, it puts you in a different.
Dorothy: There is truly energy in every place we are. And it’s like, I, I, I remember a talk one time about you can go into a prison, you can go into a church. If you don’t believe in energy, just go from one to the other. And you can tell there is a sense of energy. That sometimes needs clearing.
Ashma: Exactly. But everybody goes into a dark space somewhere along in their life. But sometimes if you really look carefully, you’re in the darkest space, there is light coming in. And that is the light we’re always looking for.
Dorothy: I know. You know, one time when I was really in a dark place, you told me, you said, well, what are, what is it you’re looking for? And of course it’s the light.
Ashma: Yes.
Dorothy: You know, we don’t want to stay there.
Ashma: No.
Dorothy: No. So it’s okay to acknowledge we’re there. Yeah.
Ashma: It’s okay to be in that dark space, but it is up to you to find that crack where the light is coming [00:28:00] from and the rest is you experience something divine.
Dorothy: Ashma, can you take us through a short meditation?
Ashma: Sure. So what do we need to do? So we need to be relaxed, put, put everything down.
Dorothy: With all these lights on us and all these people around, right, we’re going to be relaxed.
Ashma: Usually I like to, uh, make sure that your feet are grounded on the, on the ground. So you feel grounded. Um, putting your hands, I usually like to open my hands. And, you know, like you’re praying or, you know, receiving, and then I would say, close your eyes gently and take a deep breath in from your belly and just release. [00:29:00] Make sure your shoulders are relaxed. You’re sitting upright and keep breathing in and out. If you feel there is any thought, flickering thoughts coming through, just try to ignore them and keep breathing until you feel comfortable and settled with your breath. And then slowly just breathe in and out and feel the air coming in and out. And just focus on that. Anytime your mind wanders, [00:30:00] just bring it back to your breath. Leave behind that doesn’t serve you right now. And just relax. Whenever you’re ready, slowly bring yourself back. Whenever you are ready, open your eyes gently.
Dorothy: And so it is.
Ashma: Yes.
Dorothy: Thank you so much.
Ashma: Absolutely.
Dorothy: My goodness, you do feel refreshed.
Ashma: Yes, you do. Yes. And sometimes I always tell people that if you’re having a busy day and you feel overwhelmed, that space can be your car. Just go into your car. Go into the closet, [00:31:00] wherever it needs to go to rejuvenate and bring that light. Find that light.
Dorothy: And bring it in.
Ashma: And your path will be illuminated.
Dorothy: Beautiful. Well, thank you again so much for being with us today. And thank you for that lovely break from this busy and demanding world.
Ashma: I hope whatever we spoke about today is going to reach people and hopefully it’s something new that they learned today from us.
Dorothy: Oh, I hope so. Thanks again.
Ashma: Thank you.
Post-Credits: Thank you for joining us today on Let’s Talk About Your Breasts. This podcast is produced by Speke Podcasting and brought to you by The Rose. Visit therose.org to learn more about our organization. Subscribe to our podcast, share episodes with friends, and join the conversation on social media using #LetsTalkAboutYourBreasts. We welcome [00:32:00] your feedback and suggestions. Consider supporting The Rose. Your gift can make the difference to a person in need. Remember, self care is not selfish, it’s essential.
