Dorothy: [00:00:00] Hi, I’m Dorothy Gibbons, CEO and co founder of The Rose. So today we have with us, Miroslava De Leon, and she is an artist with a woman’s body. And I just cannot wait for her to tell us what it is that she does, especially for that woman who’s been through breast cancer and been through breast cancer surgery.
Let’s Talk About Your Breast. A different kind of podcast presented to you by The Rose. The Breast Center of Excellence and a Texas treasure. You’re going to hear frank discussions about tough topics. And you’re going to learn why knowing about your breast could save your life. Join us as we hear another story and we answer those tough questions that you may have.
Tell us a little bit about your background. Where are you from? What you had hoped to be in this life and and how you got into this work.
Miroslava: Thank You [00:01:00] Dorothy for the introduction as already mentioned. My name is Miroslava De Leon. I am Latina I was born in Mexico and I My parents came to the United States when I was four years old.
So this is what I call home Um, I graduated from A& M. I’m an Aggie. I have a business degree in supply chain management and a minor in human resource development. Um, what I thought my dream was, was to work in corporate America. I worked for a very well known petrochemical company for six years as a supply chain analyst.
And within my first year, I quickly realized. It’s just not, that’s not what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. Um, I didn’t feel like, uh, I was, I had a purpose, um, being in corporate, but I really wasn’t making a different, I wasn’t, I wasn’t making a difference in, uh, people’s lives. So I considered changing careers and, uh, I quickly realized that I like to help people and I liked working with my hands.
So, um, that’s how I got [00:02:00] into paramedical tattooing. Um, when I found out about this service, it was a calling. And I initially and instantly felt that that was my calling, um, and that was my purpose in life to help women recover after breast cancer.
Dorothy: So when you talk about paramedical and tattoos, it sounds like, what are we talking about here?
And, and of course, that’s part of what you’re going to be sharing with us. But how in the world, I mean, how did you stumble across it or did it come to you? I don’t.
Miroslava: So it’s, it’s a good question. Um, so I, it was an ad on Facebook of, uh, first started off with scar camouflage. So it was a technique that was developed in Brazil where they were camouflaging scars and stretch marks with skin tone pigment.
So I was really interested in doing that because I had stretch marks myself that I was insecure about. And I didn’t know of anyone in Houston, um, doing this procedure. So that, [00:03:00] initially, that sparked an interest. And then, um, you know, once you open the door, you realize what’s behind it. And that’s where I really learned what paramedical tattooing was.
So it’s not just tattooing where we’re tattooing butterflies and dragons. This is really more on the paramedical side, which really focuses on the 3D areola, which is basically It focuses on the drawing and the illusion of creating that nipple and that areola by using highlights and shadows. So it’s really a technique that you have to understand how to use those colors in order to develop that hyper realistic effect.
So we want it to look real. We don’t want it to look like a tattoo. We want women to feel like it’s part of their body and not like it’s just a tattoo.
Dorothy: So for our listeners, And this is going to sound a little graphic. When you have breast cancer, many women undergo mastectomy and reconstruction. And the reconstruction is a [00:04:00] very long process and, and it has to do with having implants that are inflatable and stretching the skin.
But most mastectomies include taking off the nipple and include that as being part of the mastectomy. So you end up with just bare skinned and it’s, I mean, women are so excited to have that shape again. And, and no matter what, this is our bodies. You know, I, I used to get so upset when people would go, Oh, why do you have to worry about reconstruction?
You know reconstruction was not reimbursed for a very long time by insurance, but that’s a whole other issue But but it is important. It’s part of our bodies. It’s like a leg an arm any of that. So Here you have you’ve undergone breast cancer. You’ve dealt with all of the things that go along with that You feel like you’re on your way to recovery.
You’ve got your reconstruction done, but it still doesn’t look like a breast. [00:05:00]
Miroslava: Correct.
Dorothy: So describe a little more how What happens when a woman comes to you? I mean, are they, they’ve got to be a little nervous.
Miroslava: Um, they are a little nervous more than anything. They are, uh, they’re worried about the size, you know, is it going to fit their breasts, the color.
And what I like to do is I like to make them very well involved in the procedure. So what I tell them, it’s, you know, we’re going to go ahead and draw signs. I usually have a circle template. And I let them choose, you know, according to the size that you see here, what do you feel like most fits you? And most of them will be like, well, I trust you as a professional, you know, what do you recommend?
So I look at the size of their breasts and I like to map the areola. If they have small breasts, a smaller areola. If they have larger breasts, I tend to go with the bigger size. So I like to draw them on and let them take a look. If we feel like it’s too small, we can go bigger. If we feel like it’s too big, we can go smaller.
So I like to make them feel like they’re involved, because this really is in their, on their [00:06:00] body, right? So I like to make them, um, very active during the procedure. And then we talk about color selection. So, you know, a lot of women maybe had very dark areolas and this time they want to have lighter areolas or vice versa.
So we really get to work with one another and I like to understand what they want. Or sometimes they come in with a picture of what their breasts look like before. So they tell me this is the color and this is the size. So that helps me really understand what they really are looking for. Um, this can be done both on a flat surface.
So if they decide not to do the nipple reconstruction, um, that’s not a problem. I actually like working on a blank canvas cause it allows me to really be artistic and to really get creative. It also can be done on breasts that have a nipple reconstruction. So it can also be tattooed.
Dorothy: Explain how they do that.
How they create that nipple reconstruction.
Miroslava: So usually they take part of the ear, the [00:07:00] cartilage, and they reconstruct the nipple mount, or they’ll do what’s called like the shoelace method, where they’ll cut from one side and another, and they’ll just make a little knot. And that makes. The nipple mound like it’s protruding and that gives it the appearance of a nipple.
Dorothy: Right. And I mean Some of their work is just amazing.
Miroslava: Absolutely.
Dorothy: Without the color.
Miroslava: Correct.
Dorothy: It still doesn’t look like—
Miroslava: that’s exactly right So that’s the beauty of this technique is that we can add color Even if even if they do decide to go ahead and get the nipple reconstruction We can still go in, and sometimes they go flat, so you’ll have one side that’s smaller than the other, so this really allows us to enhance what the surgeon has done, and to really create that symmetry between both breasts, so, um, we kind of enhance the surgeon’s work.
Dorothy: But even, even in our own bodies, before it’s ever had anything, we’re not always totally the [00:08:00] same.
And I, that’s interesting.
Miroslava: I like to say they’re sisters, not twins, right? Just like brows.
Dorothy: Oh, that’s true. That is so true.
Miroslava: Just like brows. They’re sisters, not twins, but I do try to do my best. To make them as symmetrical as possible. And with usually with the bilateral, it’s a lot easier in terms of mapping.
Cause it, you know, the circle template is easier when it’s a unilateral, it’s a lot more challenging because sometimes we have breast, uh, areolas that are oval. They’re not perfectly, uh, a circle and then a color. So my job when it’s a unilateral is to really match what I’m seeing on the other side. So with the 3D areola tattooing, I can go in and put Montgomery glands.
Put the breast sprinkles, make it look really, really hyper realistic. But if I’m not seeing that in a unilateral, I’m not just going to place it there because it looks pretty or because it looks artistic. So my job as a paramedical tattoo artist when it comes to a unilateral is to really match [00:09:00] what I’m seeing on the other side.
And sometimes it’s an opportunity for women that don’t like the way it sways. If it’s kind of oval, I ask them, do you want me to make it more circular? So we can also touch that specific, even if it wasn’t reconstructed, we can make it more circular and then make the other side match. So it gets really creative.
And the results are amazing.
Dorothy: Oh my goodness, and I know this would be hard for people to, to imagine. 3D looks so real. I, I, I can’t compare it to anything, uh, to create that, that image. But we’ve all seen the 3D pictures that look like you’re falling into something, or you’re going downstairs from a sidewalk.
That, that technique, it has to be very, Delicate or, you know, I just, it’s hard to imagine.
Miroslava: It’s really understanding the shadows and the highlights. That’s what really makes the illusion of it being hyper realistic, or like if the nipple is [00:10:00] protruding. It’s basically understanding where the highlight, which is the lightest part, and the shadow goes.
So if you think about it as a circle, where the light hits it. That is the highlight. And then there’s a shadow that’s left behind, just like we can see with this cup. So that’s really the, uh, the concept behind the 3D tattooing.
Dorothy: Interesting. How many different colors would you use?
Miroslava: I use at least four to five different colors for every single patient.
So I really don’t like to make it flat using one color because that takes away from the realistic. So I like to use, uh, colors. Um, I call, I use what’s called stacking. So usually I’ll use for the areola two colors that I feel like complements their skin tone. That’s another way that we also select colors.
Sometimes they’ll ask me, you know, you’re the expert, you choose the colors. And I usually go based on their skin tone. If it’s someone that’s very fair. You know, I’ll give them more of a beige, pink areola, or someone that’s more, a little bit [00:11:00] darker, maybe a brown pink. So we, I, I usually base it off on their skin tone, and I always let them see before, um, we, we proceed.
And a lot of the questions too, is they’re very nervous that it’s going to hurt. And 90 percent of my patients don’t have feeling. So this is a very comfortable procedure. I’ve had someone take a nap and that is absolutely fine. That is absolutely fine. Um, for women that do have sensation, um, I can use a topical numbing.
So in five minutes, um, the area is numb. So it makes it very, very comfortable for them, um, to get this procedure done. That’s probably one of the questions that I get, is it going to hurt? And usually what I tell them, if you do have feeling, and if you do have sensation while I’m doing it, it’s going to feel like a slight sunburn afterwards.
And it’ll probably happen for a few hours and then it’ll be gone. So it’s not a very painful procedure. For the most part, most patients don’t feel anything. It takes about [00:12:00] an hour, an hour and a half to do a bilateral for a unilateral. It takes me about 45 minutes. So it’s a fairly quick procedure there in and out.
Um, it’s not very long and it’s meant to be permanent. We are working with compromised tissue. We don’t want to have to be touching this up every year. Um, I know semi permanent makeup is very popular now, which is the eyebrows and the microblading. This is a totally different technique. It’s not meant to be touched up every year because we are working with that compromised tissue.
So we want this to be permanent. We want to see them maybe five years for a touch up, but this is meant to be permanent.
Dorothy: That’s so interesting because that was one of the questions I, I received and I was saying, Oh, we’re going to have this, you know, and they said, well, don’t you have to, Touch it up like you said every year and I said, you know, I really don’t know so it is a different technique.
Miroslava: It is a it’s a different technique.
It’s more of a tattooing. So we’re going into the dermis So, the difference between semi permanent and permanent, with [00:13:00] semi permanent, they’re staying more on the epidermis, um, which is just the first layer of the skin. And with this technique, we’re going in a little bit deeper into the dermis to really trap that ink in the, in the body where it makes it permanent.
Now, when they get their first session, it’s going to fade about 30 to 40 percent and that’s normal for any, for any tattoo. What I usually tell them is that, um, if they like If they feel like they lost too much color, they can come back in at six weeks to get a touch up. So we want to wait at least six weeks to make sure that the skin has fully healed.
And now I can really see how much retention the body has held. And they usually come back at six weeks for their touch up. And usually I don’t see them for You know, three to, three to five years is usually what I would say, just as a color refresher, not really doing the entire procedure again, but just kind of like a color booster just with any tattoo.
Dorothy: So is there any preparation involved with the woman? Does, [00:14:00] I mean, I know you have to have the consultation. But then beyond that, does she have to do anything special?
Miroslava: To take care of the tattoo?
Dorothy: Before she gets to you?
Miroslava: No, so the only thing that I do ask is that when they come see me, I’m the final step in the process.
So if they’re thinking about having any kind of surgery, if they are thinking about doing the nipple reconstruction, that has to be done before they come see me.
Dorothy: Good point.
Miroslava: So I am the very, very last step of their breast cancer journey.
Dorothy: Now, and you touched upon after. The procedure, is there special instructions or risk factors or?
Miroslava: So, the, my main concern is infection. Since we are opening the skin, I, safety is my top priority. And I take it very serious. So, I use everything that’s a one time, uh, use. So, my needles are a one time use. Where I put the pigment in is a one time use. I try to be as clean as possible and I usually disinfect the [00:15:00] area before starting.
And then I’ll go ahead and clean again after the procedure. And I’ll put what’s called a tegaderm. It usually goes over an IV or a port, which is like a clear band aid, a sticker. And I usually ask them if they’re allergic to it. Some women will know immediately that they had had an allergic reaction to it.
If they had, we won’t go with that option because we know that they’re going to develop the reaction. But if they are not, um, I like this method because what they’ll do is I will place the Tegaderm on. Each, um, each breast that we did the tattoo and they’ll leave that on for five days. And that really reduces the risk of infection because they’re not having to touch it or wash it or do anything with it for five days.
It’s completely sealed, so it’s minimizing the risk of infection. They can shower with it on, just no submergings, hot tubs, bath tubs, any of that that has a risk for infection. I usually say for About a month just to be on the safe side, but usually once that Tegaderm [00:16:00] comes off, they will just wash it with antibacterial soap and they’re good to go.
It’s a really, um, easy aftercare. If they are allergic, what I do is I’ll place some non adhesive, uh, pads with a little bit of Aquaphor to keep it moist and we’ll do that for three to four days.
Dorothy: Tell us some of the reactions when women, when it’s all done and they’re looking at their, their breasts, now they have nipples and, and the color back.
Miroslava: To me, that is the most fulfilling, uh, part of being able to do this. And that’s really what I was missing with corporate, um, to see their reaction and the comments that I hear from women anywhere from, I never thought I would date again. So giving them hope that they cannot go into the dating world. So give them, giving them back that confidence to me has no price.
And this is why I chose to do this. Um, I chose to do this because that for me has been the most fulfilling and it [00:17:00] has been very, very rewarding that I know corporate was never going to be able to give me. So just hearing their reactions or, um, saying, you know, I might turn the lights on, you know, or they take down every mirror in their house because they don’t want to see the scars.
They don’t want to see themselves without, you know, the nipples and the areolas. They don’t feel like a woman. So being able to give that confidence back just by doing something so simple to me has been so meaningful and so rewarding.
Dorothy: You’ve touched on so many things there. So this could be any age. I mean, it’s not limited to young women.
It’s any age that a woman could be. that may need this?
Miroslava: In Texas, it has to be at least 18 years old. So since it is considered a tattoo, they do have to be 18. The youngest patient I’ve had in my chair was 19 years old. She had gone through a double mastectomy. She had no family history of [00:18:00] breast cancer and it’s alarming because I see younger and younger women sitting in my chair.
That have gone through this.
Dorothy: We do too. I mean that’s that’s been the most concerning part of the last 10 years is how we are seeing younger and younger women. You’re absolutely right. But On the other hand, if you’re an older woman, there’s no reason for you not to have this done also.
Miroslava: Exactly.
Dorothy: Because like you said, it is part of our image.
And I have a very good friend that, that was not dating, and thought, I’ll never be able to date again, and I don’t ever want a man to see me like this, you know. And, and once she did it, it was like, oh my gosh, she was a new woman.
Miroslava: It’s life changing.
Dorothy: Yes.
Miroslava: It really is. It’s life changing. Um, the way you reconnect with your body, I think a lot of women lose that connection, right?
But they don’t want to even look at their breasts because they try to take their [00:19:00] life, right? And they see the scars. So they emotionally, they disconnect with their breasts. You know, they come in usually and they really don’t care. They’ll take off, you know, their clothes and they’re not really shy for anybody to see them because they feel like nothing is there.
And when they see some, when they see the tattoos, I can see the modesty coming back and they start covering up even though it’s a tattoo and it’s a beautiful thing to see because visually you’re now seeing something on your breast that you’ve once had. Um, so I think the reactions I see, the stories I hear are probably the hardest of, of doing what I do.
I tried to be professional, but you know, we’re human and I hear so many stories that have touched me tremendously. Um, and just to be able to be part of their journey has been a blessing in my life.
Dorothy: Oh, that is so, so in many ways profound, honestly, because we don’t realize how much something like that means.
Miroslava: Correct.
Dorothy: And there’s no way that [00:20:00] Anyone I’d say this to any lady eating woman. There’s no way to let anyone minimize How you feel it is too important too important for your recovery.
Miroslava: Correct.
Dorothy: Too important for your life and your quality of life. So Earlier, you said something. Um This is covered by insurance?
Miroslava: Yes. So, uh, for women that have insurance and of course it depends if they’ve met their deductible, if it goes with the, you know, there are certain rules, but usually cover, uh, yeah, insurance does cover this procedure after the breast cancer act was passed. Um, this, the aerial, the 3d areola tattooing, it is covered in their insurance.
Dorothy: And how do you handle women that don’t have insurance?
Miroslava: I, uh, we do a very discounted rate for them. So depending if it’s a bilateral or a unilateral, we make it very affordable where anyone can get this done.
Dorothy: It’s so good to hear because so many of our women You know do not have insurance or they are [00:21:00] low income and and this would not be high on their priority list.
Miroslava: Correct.
Dorothy: But boy what a difference it would make It really life.
Miroslava: It really does make a difference and it’s quite surprising that not a lot of women know about this When they get to me, they’re like my daughter saw you on instagram and she knows she shared your page with me and to me You know, one of my missions is how can I do a better job at raising awareness and making women aware that this is an option?
And there’s women that really, you know, they don’t see a need for it and that’s okay If you don’t want to get this procedure done, that’s that’s okay And you know, it’s a beautiful thing that you are able to accept your scars and in you’re okay with that But for some women it really does make a big difference and the fact that A lot of doctors don’t even know about this either.
You know, they come to me and it’s been 10 years since their breast recon and they’re like, I wish my doctor would have told me that this was available. So, um, I’m trying to find ways and avenues of how can [00:22:00] I be more active in our community about spreading awareness, really making this known. Um, that this is an option and that they, they don’t have to stop after the breast recon that there’s one last step that’s, I call it the cherry on top of the cake where it really seals everything and it really makes it like it, it makes a, you know, the, the, the cake complete.
Um, they don’t have to stop at the breast recon and this really really makes a very positive impact in their life And I want more women to know that this is an option.
Dorothy: Well, I tell you The Rose is just honored that you’re here with us today and that we can share with our audience You know all that you’re sharing with us today.
This is so incredibly important. And like you said, it’s not well known and it’s here. It’s now you don’t have to wait.
Miroslava: Yes, absolutely. I’m honored to be here. I really am. I have followed The Rose and I have, you know, heard of The Rose and how it really does make an [00:23:00] impact on the community. And, um, for me, it’s an honor to be here.
Dorothy: Thank you so much. Like I said, a lot of our women also are spanish speaking. Is there anything you would like to say to that Spanish speaking woman who may be very undecided about doing this or doesn’t even know it exists or wants to know more?
Miroslava: So I think in all, in the, I speak for the Latino community in general, and I’ll say this in Spanish, but I want to say this in English.
You know, tattoos are kind of looked down upon. I think it’s more of a, um, a cultural, uh, you know, mindset that tattoos, you know, on a woman is not very womanly. And this is a medical tattoo. This is not just a regular tattoo. So I think for women to understand that this is a medical tattoo that really makes a difference in their life.
It’s okay, you’re doing this for yourself, and for nobody else. So, for my, uh, Latino [00:24:00] community, Mi nombre es Miroslava, y les quiero decir que soy una artista paramédica que me enfoco en lo que es la restauración de la aereola 3D. Para las que no saben, es un tipo tatuaje. Que es la ilusión de un pezón y una areola, y aquí estoy disponible para la comunidad latina.
Para que las personas que ocupen de mis servicios, sería un honor para mí poder trabajar con ustedes.
Dorothy: Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that. And, and we’ll be sending this out. And, um, you know, and we do have Spanish speaking support groups. And I guarantee, I doubt that anyone in that group even knows that this is available.
So I can’t wait.
Miroslava: I would love to be involved. In any way.
Dorothy: Oh, okay.
Miroslava: You know, if I could come to a support [00:25:00] group and maybe do a little presentation and educate them on what this is, what this looks like, this technique has come a long way. It’s been around, but I think throughout the years we’ve learned how we can make it better.
So I think maybe a lot of women, when they think of a tattoo, they think of the old method and what it used to look like back then. So when I, usually when I’m finished doing the procedures, I’m like, Oh my God, it looks so real. Like, and that’s to me, it’s, I’ve done my job, right. As a, as a tattoo artist, paramedical tattoo artist.
So you hear those words that they look so real. That’s really the whole purpose behind it. It’s to make it look real and to make it look like it’s part of your body. Not that it’s just a tattoo sitting there. So, I think a lot of women are not educated on what it looks like or what, how has the procedure changed over the years.
So, I would absolutely love to come to any support, uh, group meetings, kind of do a presentation on it to kind of [00:26:00] show them what it is, educate them, answer questions that they might have. I would love to be involved in any way possible.
Dorothy: And we’d love to have you. Tell us how we can find you.
Miroslava: My website is concealtouch.com. My email is [email protected]. That’s c-o-n-c-e-a-l-t-o-u-c-h .com. My instagram is @concealtouch_bymiroslava and you can always reach me by a cell phone at (832) 433-2191. I’d love to answer any questions or help in any way possible.
Dorothy: And we’re going to have your information on our website and certainly be sharing this.
This episode, which was so informative. My goodness. Thank you so much—
Miroslava: Thank you for having me.
Dorothy: —for being on the show. Yes, of course. So that wraps it up for today, and don’t forget, we’re doing a episode every single day. You’re going to get your daily dose. [00:27:00] Let’s Talk About Your Breasts during the month of October.
Post-Credits: October is the month of pink. And for the Rose, a breast center of excellence. That means we’ll be airing podcasts every day in October to celebrate Breast Cancer Awareness Month, you’ll be hearing from longtime firefighter, senior captain, and breast cancer survivor from the Houston Fire Department. You’ll hear how making clay heads was part of her treatment. Be sure to share with family and friends because there’s a little something for everyone. To find out ways to help the Rose visit our website at therose.org. And remember, self-care is not selfish. It’s essential.
