Dorothy: [00:00:00] Ellen is back, continuing talking about her journey from an executive stress to personal growth. She shares how she prioritized her well being at the height of her career, leading to profound changes. And this isn’t easy. You work very hard to become a success in whatever way you can. Job you have and whatever your career is, but one day you find out that it’s a very lonely place to be.
Ellen tells us, and she discovered the importance of vulnerability of self-care, and she tells us that it’s okay to reset, whether it’s resetting your career, resetting the project, resetting your marriage, your relationship with your kids, whatever it is, it’s okay to reset and plug it back in.
When you subscribe to our show, you help us grow. Someone you know may need to hear this story. So please share with your family and friends and consider supporting [00:01:00] our mission. Your donation can help save the life of an uninsured woman.
Let’s talk about your breast, a different kind of podcast presented to you by The Rose, the Breast Center of Excellence, and a Texas treasure. You’re going to hear frank discussions about tough topics, and you’re going to learn why knowing about your breast could save your life.
So we’ve been with Ellen Chen for a little bit here, and she’s been talking about a life changing [00:02:00] decision that she made really at the peak of her career. Now, I’m so fascinated with her story because this is a hard thing for women to do. We put everybody else first and this was a time in Ellen’s life when she had to put herself first.
So we’re going to continue to explore some of the ways that she did it. She had a plan. But she quit. She quit work. I, I just stand in amazement at anyone at that level, at an executive level, could have said, okay, I’m done. I’m taking care of myself.
Ellen: You know, Dorothy, the, uh, when something, it’s like a Mack truck has to hit you. It wasn’t just kind of personal, you know, um, deaths in family that happened. I found myself every day crying at work. Either I was [00:03:00] frustrated with the situation, not feeling like I was delivering, not feeling like I was meeting expectations, not feeling like I was being the best leader I could be. And oftentimes as an executive, it’s a, it’s a very lonely place to be.
Dorothy: Very lovely, yes.
Ellen: And, and in, in my past careers, um, cause I’ve had a lot of really stressful jobs, but I’ve always had my peers that I trusted that I could go into their office, shut the door, and yell, or cry, or vent. And I was in a place where I didn’t have that. And I felt very, very alone. Um. And that’s pretty common, I think, in senior executives, but I just knew that this didn’t feel right. I shouldn’t, I shouldn’t be [00:04:00] crying every day, and I could just feel my soul beaten, being eaten away. And again, it was just that my dad was always in, in the background.
Dorothy: So for our listeners, we want to remind them that here you are working very, very hard, going up that ladder. Dad’s always been your cheerleader, your go to person.
Then Dad dies, and I’m always touched by you really didn’t have a chance to say goodbye. And then you start to recognize that all along he’s been kind of moving you. To think about what you were doing.
Ellen: He, he, he would have never said this, but I was, in my mind, I was doing all those things for him. [00:05:00] And I wanted to make him proud of my, um, achievements. So, when he wasn’t there anymore, it was kind of like, well, what am I doing this for? I’m miserable. I can’t call him anymore and tell him my best friend passed two and a half months after he passed. She was young, just turned 50, three kids. Oldest was about to start her senior year.
And she had been battling ovarian cancer for over seven years. They gave her three years and that girl beat it for seven years. The last, whoo, the last two years with the chemo had eaten up so much of her physically. It was painful for her to even [00:06:00] sit up to, and so when I would see her, I know she was mustering all her energy, and I would see her in between her treatments.
So I only got to see her like in person maybe once a quarter. So to see what she struggled through, just to try to make it as long as possible for her family. And I just remember the last time that we met, she, I wanted to assure her, because we knew what the outcome was going to be. I wanted to try to assure her that I would um, we would always be there for her husband and her kids.
So she had passed in August and her oldest was starting. And it really, it was the crying every day at work and not feeling like I talked to anybody. It was nobody to, to talk, tell about my accomplishments. Dad wasn’t there. It was [00:07:00] my best friend passing at such a young age. So really that, that, that limit of how long your life was going to be. And, and it was, um, I realized after I took the time off, and even before I took it, I knew I couldn’t do this on my own. I needed help. And so I started counseling a couple months before I left.
Dorothy: I’m so glad you shared that because there’s still stigma that goes along with, oh, you needed a therapist. Well, yeah, we all need a therapist from time to time, if not all the time.
Ellen: All the time. And especially in the Asian community. Big stigma. Oh. And, and so I’m Chinese. I am first generation. Um, in the Asian community, you keep your emotions hidden. Because you don’t want to show that. You don’t need [00:08:00] help from others. So anything bad, you don’t want other people to know about it because it’s all about saving face, right? So that’s just the culture. And so in the Asian community, it is not, uh, less my generation, definitely my parents generation, nobody goes to counseling. Like that is just crazy talk. But I knew I couldn’t do this on my own. And so I realized in starting that process, and even during my creating silence phase, I was learning things about myself that, and so what I was learning was I hadn’t always taken care of my personal wellness.
It, for me, I covered that up through busy work. And my career was going well. Um, my husband, he can take care of the kids. That’s my mentality, right? I had a stay home husband [00:09:00] so he can take care of the kids. So I won’t worry about that, which is partially why I am rebuilding my relationship with my children.
And I’ll keep myself busy doing stuff so I don’t have to take care of myself. And even during therapy. I remember my therapist said to me, you know, Ellen, you’re, I don’t feel, and I’m paraphrasing, that you’re, you’re not comfortable actually talking about your feelings and your emotions very much. And I realized he was right.
I’m, I’m not. And even when I’m having one on ones. You know, with my friends, coffees, I’m really good at asking questions and I’m really good at digging deep into them. But when it gets turned to me, I tend to [00:10:00] gloss over it. So even with my father’s death, I, I really don’t talk about it. People have asked me, how are you doing?
I gloss over it. I’m fine. Or I don’t answer the question, or I, and that is something that I know is not good.
Dorothy: And how have you changed that? Have you—
Ellen: I’m still working on it.
Dorothy: But see all the different things you’ve talked about with wellness, you know, here at the Rose, we really believe that self care is essential. It’s not being selfish. If we don’t take care of ourselves and that includes our whole self, you know, of course, we want every woman to have her mammogram. And of course. We wanted to have all of the preventive health, uh, services that are out there now, but mental health is important too, and being able to say you need help, you know, you learn that as an executive at some point, but [00:11:00] it’s still taking its time to learn it as a person.
Ellen: I think what I learned as a female executive in a very male dominated world is you do not show your feelings. That is a sign of weakness. You’re with a bunch of guys. And so my mistake, and so as I took my time of silence and what I realized during that time was I was, and this is also I think why my last job was so hard for me, was that a lot of times in a corporate setting, in those senior positions, where wellness is not talked about enough. Your mental wellness is not talked about enough. I think it’s an opportunity for companies, but it’s, it’s not there yet.
Dorothy: No, but is [00:12:00] that something that you’re doing now with all of your consulting with companies?
Ellen: I think I’m definitely recognizing. That is a big miss of companies.
Dorothy: Because you didn’t have that support.
Ellen: I didn’t have that support.
Dorothy: And you didn’t ask for it, really.
Ellen: I didn’t.
Dorothy: And didn’t know you needed it at that level. So, you know, all of these things are very similar to what women go through. And even when you’re dealing with a health issue like breast cancer, you know, you’re still trying to take care of everybody else, still trying to put that face on. Still, oh, I’m going to be fine. This had to be a very scary time for you.
Ellen: Very scary. And probably every day, I’m, I’m scared about it because I think, you know, just like, um, tackling even how to grieve, like I viewed it as a project, right? This is what I will do, but even through that, [00:13:00] there are things that are like your wellness, your mental well-being is not a project. You can’t do these 20 things and it will automatically fix things. Sometimes it’s just being quiet and just being okay going into your grief.
Dorothy: And some, yes, sometimes just being—
Ellen: just being there. And because I think whenever I start grieving, you know, when I was working, I had that to distract me. And now—
Dorothy: Work is a great addictive distractor.
Ellen: Yes, it is. And, and I think what happens then is for me, that I wasn’t taking care of myself because work was my out to prevent me from taking care of myself. So I’ve continued with the counseling. I have a session tomorrow at three o’clock because I know that forces me to take a pause in the process.[00:14:00]
You know, and, and, and, um, the fear part, um, I will say that, that going to my sessions has helped me a lot with the fear, the fear of not having the right title, of not being connected to the right company. Um, I take that back into my therapy sessions and he helps me work through it, process through that. I need to learn that when I’m with a friend and they’re asking me how I’m doing to let the guard down and to be vulnerable and to actually talk about it and not gloss over it. So I’m trying to, to do that. And at least now I’m catching myself. I’m at least aware.
Dorothy: Huge set. Huge.
Ellen: And so I try to catch myself when I’m just glossing over [00:15:00] things.
Dorothy: You know Ellen, you, what you’re doing is you’re finding you. And, and, and I think for our listeners, it’s just so important to remember it was a process.
Ellen: Still is.
Dorothy: It didn’t happen overnight. You, you had a plan that sometimes worked, but you had a plan. You made a decision. I don’t hear that you regret looking back or any of that. So, you know, again, it’s back to taking care of ourselves. and recognizing, I’m so amazed at how much closer you are with your family, your children. You know, that was probably more important to them than anything else you ever did. And we don’t often have that second chance.
Ellen: And that is never too late.
Dorothy: Never too late. I love that part. Yeah.
Ellen: It’s never too late.
Dorothy: I posit that your dad’s probably pretty darn proud of you right now with all that you’ve done this last year. And [00:16:00] thank you for being so willing to share. This is very personal thing to share all of this with our listeners.
Ellen: Thank you, Dorothy.
Dorothy: So let’s—
Ellen: It’s a privilege to be here.
Dorothy: Let’s leave with one of your infamous quotes, or one of your things to hold on to when you’re feeling low.
Ellen: Well, I love this quote. Um, I came across this quote, um, during my, um, period of silence and it’s just so simple, but it just really resonated with me. And so I do keep this handy.
And the quote, um, is by the, um, author, um, Anne Lamott. And she said, “almost everything will work again if you unplug it. Including yourself.”
Dorothy: Whoa, almost everything will work again.
Ellen: If you just unplug it, including yourself. And sometimes we just need to take ourselves out of that situation, out of whatever. It’s okay to reset, whether it’s [00:17:00] resetting your career, resetting the project, resetting your marriage, your relationship with your kids, whatever that is. It’s okay to reset it and plug it back in. Maybe it’ll work a different way. Um, just give yourself that, that time to unplug.
Dorothy: Great advice. Great message. Thank you so much for being with us.
Ellen: Thank you to your team.
Dorothy: Oh, great team. Yeah.
Ellen: Thanks.
Post-Credits: Thank you for joining us today on Let’s Talk About Your Breasts. This podcast is produced by Speke Podcasting and brought to you by The Rose. Visit therose.org to learn more about our organization. Subscribe to our podcast. Share episodes with friends and join the conversation on social media using #LetsTalkAboutYourBreasts. We welcome your feedback and suggestions. Consider supporting The Rose. Your gift can make the difference to a person in need. Remember, self care is not selfish. It’s [00:18:00] essential.
