Dorothy: [00:00:00] Can a life changing event reshape your career path? Today we’re talking with Ellen Chin about her journey from a high demand job to a new chapter in her life. She shares her experience as being an immigrant, balancing career and family, and the impact of her father’s illness. She tells us, If I can’t call my dad, why am I doing all this?
The reflection led Ellen to reassess her priorities, to take time for self discovery, something few of us have that opportunity to do, and yet all of us should be doing. Hear more about Ellen’s life changing decision, and how she is continuing to navigate life.
When you subscribe to our show, you help us grow. Someone you know may need to hear this story. So please, share with your family and friends. And consider supporting our mission. Your donation can help save the life of an uninsured woman.[00:01:00]
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Thank you so much for being with us today, Ellen. And I’d love for you to just start us off by telling us a little bit about you, your background, and then we’re going to get into where you are in life right now.
Ellen: Okay. I’ll try to keep it brief. I always start off with, um, I’m an immigrant. I arrived to the United States at five years old, um, moved to a small town outside of, uh, Dallas Fort Worth where there were not anybody else who looked like me back in the seventies where the only person who looked like me was Connie Chung. [00:02:00] So I was always getting, um, being told I look just like Connie Chung. And I’m like, I look nothing like Connie Chung, but at the time, right, she was the only other Asian. So grew up, grew up in a small town, uh, went to school at UT, studied programming. And ended up when I graduated from college, um, moved into a role where I was doing COBOL programming. And most people now need to Google what COBOL is. It’s a really old programming language. Learned pretty early on I was a crap programmer. I’m not a very good programmer, but I was good at talking to people. So they would always send me in between the client, kind of the users and the programmers. And that actually has become a theme in my career is that kind of being able to translate Uh, languages and kind of getting out there and, and talking to [00:03:00] people.
So that’s really kind of the first 30, 40 years of my career. I’ve, um, married, three kids. They’re pretty grown up now, but, um. When we had our first child, my husband decided to stay home. I say he drew the shorter straw. I was in the middle of my career, really enjoying it. I would say probably for a good 30 years of my career, um, I was, climbing the ladder, not knowing I was climbing the ladder. I was just very mentally curious and would always raise my hand to do things. And then the company or the boss I worked for realized I was already doing that next job. and would then give me the title, uh, that went with it. Um, so I’ve fallen into a lot of really interesting careers, uh, got me to become the head of HR [00:04:00] for a large oilfield services company that was about 5 billion, 5 billion in revenue, um, over 80 countries, 50,000 plus employees. Um, I very much suffered from. The imposter syndrome. You know, so, um.
Dorothy: Share with our list listers what that means.
Ellen: I’m quote person, you know, so first of all, imposter syndrome is how you feel when you get into something a position, a role, a project, and you’re hoping nobody will figure out, you don’t know what you’re doing. Usually it also means you’re afraid to tell anybody, um, because you’re hoping nobody will figure out you’re an imposter.
Dorothy: Right.
Ellen: And, um, I read this quote not too long ago. It was actually a British comedian. I think his name was Jay Carr. And he said, you should [00:05:00] always feel the Imposter Syndrome every 18 months.
Dorothy: Really?
Ellen: It’s because you’re pushing yourself.
Dorothy: Oh right.
Ellen: To do something that you’ve never done before which is why you normally feel like an imposter because I’ve never done this before I hope nobody will figure out that I’ve never done this before. And when I look back into my career, I’m 52 years old now. So I’ve had a full life, a full career.
Um, but when I look back, I realized that about every 18 to 24 months, sometimes shorter, I was always feeling that imposter syndrome, but too afraid to tell anybody and not wanting anybody to find out. And it wasn’t really till six months ago. I realized when I was listening to this comedian, like, Oh, wait a second. That was, Good.
Dorothy: Yes.
Ellen: To feel like that. And so now when I tell people, especially younger, um, folks starting their career, I’m like, look, you, you want to be pushing yourself [00:06:00] to doing something new. And I, and I say that quote to say that it’s okay to feel like an imposter.
Dorothy: Right.
Ellen: It’s okay to push yourself to do something that you’ve never done. Just know when you need help. Um, the analogy I like to use is if you think about a boat. Okay. If you poke holes in the boat. Usually there’s a line on the boat that if you poke a hole below the waterline, what will happen? Your boat will sink. If you poke a hole above the waterline, your boat will not sink.
Know where your waterline is. If you’re doing something new, make sure you know where the waterline of that project is. And if, and don’t poke a hole below the waterline where you’re going to sink the project. It’s okay to take some risks and some chances above the waterline, but if you get into a situation where you’re not sure, [00:07:00] go seek help. Go ask somebody, right? But don’t let that fear of not knowing everything stop you from trying.
Dorothy: And you know, Ellen, women feel that a lot more than men. I mean, some of the studies have shown that. But it’s also not something that’s even that old. You know, we didn’t hear that expression 20 years ago. We didn’t know what it was.
Throughout most women, you were supposed to know everything. You know, it was like, if you didn’t know, it’s because you’re a woman. Or, you know, all those things. So you’ve really touched on two areas. Don’t be afraid, take the risk. Yes, it’s going to happen. That’s how you’re going to feel. And ask for help.
Ellen: Yeah.
Dorothy: Yeah.
Ellen: And be okay to do something new and different. I think so oftentimes women, especially in a corporate world or in a work world, women have the tendency to say, I can’t, you know, I have to have met all [00:08:00] the pieces of the job description before I can do the job. You know how men do it?
Dorothy: Fifty percent, isn’t it?
Ellen: Men are like, you know, I think I can do that. You know, I can do this one thing and I don’t have to hit on every single bullet point. Then I’ll seek the job. But women, we think we have to hit every single bullet point in that job. And again, I think that kind of gets to the imposter syndrome. Because so often we’re getting into a job or in a situation, we don’t know how to do all the pieces, so then we’re scared to, to make that, that jump.
Um, so my point of telling people about the imposter syndrome is that it’s okay to feel that way. In fact, it’s actually good because that means you’ve pushed yourself to do something that, that you’ve never done before. So that, I think that’s kind of been a theme in my career is that I’ve always kind of tried to do things that, um, I’ve never done before.
I would say [00:09:00] though, um, and I’ve been working now for 30 years, that as a wife, as a mother, as a daughter, I do feel like I’ve made a lot of sacrifices that I’m not sure if I had gone back if I would have done the same things. I think when you look at me on paper, you look at titles I’ve had, you think, oh wow, she’s, she’s had a great career.
She’s, she must have it all. You know, you look at, um, my husband, we’ve been married for, uh, 28 years, 27 years. Um, and people see that, Oh, they must have a great marriage. They’ve been married for 27 years. They, it must be perfect. Look at their kids, everything. And it’s, it’s just, It’s not the case.
I’m a work in progress. I am far from [00:10:00] perfect. I hope that I can share my stories in terms of what, um, I failed at, what mistakes I’ve made, um, and hope people learn from, from that. I think at 52 now, you asked, part of the question was where, where are you in your life now? So I’ve had a very successful career, very proud of it. Have done a lot of, have been a lot of experiences that I would not want to wish upon anybody else, but they’ve been great learning experiences, but I hit a place in my career. It came from an event that happened last, last May. And it, are you okay if I share the story?
So last May, um, I’m traveling for work. I’m, um, at a town hall with about, about to stand up in front of about 150 people to speak. My, um, my mother calls me. I see her phone pop up. I’m [00:11:00] like, oh, I’ll call her after, um, the town hall. Two minutes later, she calls again. You know, When family member calls twice, you know, that’s your cue to take the call.
So I, um, I left, I hadn’t been on stage yet. So I left, took the call. My mom’s like, um, Dad’s not doing well. The ambulance is here. He’s unconscious. And I’m not, I’m just thinking he, um, he got really sick. I knew he had a cold, so I’m thinking he just got really sick and they just need to take him for a respiratory or something.
Um, so the, the, the, I talked to the ambulance person, um, and he’s like, yeah, you know, we don’t know what’s going on. He’s really not doing well. His stats don’t look good. Um, we’re taking him to, uh, Memorial Hermann. And I think when he said the stats don’t look good, I’m like, okay, that’s not, that’s—
Dorothy: That’s not normal.
Ellen: That’s, that’s serious.
Dorothy: That’s [00:12:00] serious.
Ellen: So I knew I had to figure out how to get back to Houston, but I had to go back into that room and do the town hall, as if nothing had happened, and I don’t have this thing going on, because I’m there to try to motivate employees, right? Did that, um, flights got cancelled, there was weather issues, it took me, gosh, 15, 16 hours to, to get home that night when I, um, got to the hospital.
He, um, he was already unconscious and he, he passed about 4 days later, which was a shock. He, he had, um, dad had been diagnosed with Parkinsonian, um, which is a form of Parkinson’s. Um, but a lot of the symptoms result more in dementia. And so we were already starting to deal with his dementia. And [00:13:00] for the last several years, um, dad knew something wasn’t right. And, um, and he had been working for the last five, six years to get all his affairs in order. Give us all the passwords, move everything in the account so that they were easy, because Dad always took care of us.
Dorothy: Yeah.
Ellen: And, um, dad is my hero. So, um, about three years ago we had moved my mom and dad down to Houston so I could help take care of the affairs. So I’m grateful that for those last two years, um, I got to see him every week. And I got to take care of things. I’m a daddy’s girl and I’m, um, always strived to, um, make him proud.
So when, when he [00:14:00] passed in Maine, it really took me aback. And I think my first thought was, who am I going to call when, you know, I get the promotion or success, who am I going to call? And it also made me think, you know, if I can’t call my dad, what am I doing all this for? And my dad always told me, so he, my dad had um, I have a lot of qualities of my dad.
He could have, you know, he could have become CEO of a company if he wanted to. My dad learned very early on. He had started a business when he was in his mid twenties, and I think just the trials and tribulations of starting that business he saw, it took him away from his family. Part of the reason why we moved to the States. He wanted to restart things. My dad always had a focus on his family, and he always had a focus on God. And he kept those two things at his forefront. Always. My [00:15:00] dad saw that as I was moving in my career and what he saw was Ellen’s not prioritizing things.
Dorothy: Oh, did y’all have that conversation?
Ellen: You know, it, um, it would come out in little things. You know, he would say, Ellen is, you know, proud of you for that title. Um, don’t forget about your family. Don’t forget about your kids. And so he didn’t ever tell me not to do it. I think he could relate so much to me that he knew what I was, I was thinking. So I think when he passed, his words just came back and I remember thinking, and I was really busy at work.
We had just had four acquisitions. I was working for two different companies. I was probably working 60, 80 hours a week. I realized that I really hadn’t taken the time to grieve. for him, so I felt like I wasn’t honoring him. His words came [00:16:00] back to me, and I’m thinking, okay, I’ve had a successful career, um, the money’s decent, we live a very comfortable lifestyle, but I’m not honoring him, and I’m not happy.
I wasn’t happy in my job. I didn’t feel, I didn’t feel, um, cared for. Um, the people at my work never even knew my best friend had passed that August. Dad passed in May, she passed in August. I didn’t feel, it just wasn’t the right culture, I felt, to bring that stuff into the workplace. And, and, so I knew that, um, maybe this wasn’t the right place for me.
And, and I wasn’t honoring my dad and, um, and I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do next. [00:17:00] And that was super scary. Um, as an HR person, um, my advice to people seeking jobs or wanting to get out of a situation is always like, Don’t leave without another job, right? You’re always like, you can find another job when you have a job.
So don’t leave. I’m thinking, am I sitting here thinking that I’m going to quit without going to another job? And I have an extremely loving, supportive husband who wants the best for me. He wants the best for just me. And so we started talking about it and we started looking at our finances and kids college tuitions and all of that.
He said, Ellen, we can do it. If you need to quit, I see the toll it’s taking on you. We will be fine. And, um, so I, I quit in February of 2024 without a job. [00:18:00] Um, I put together a plan because I’m that, that person.
Dorothy: Of course, I know you would.
Ellen: I put together a plan and, um, it was going to be, um, three stages, um, 90 days each. I had a project plan for this, Dorothy. This is my plan to fix myself. Um, um, it never goes quite according to plan.
Dorothy: No.
Ellen: But my first three months, I, um, called it Creating Silence.
Dorothy: All right. Say that again. Now, I want to be sure everybody’s getting this. Here’s a driven woman working for major companies and, it had to be more than just, I’m so glad you shared about hearing your dad’s words come back to you, because that never made sense to me, that he died. I mean, I know, tragic and, you know, sad and that, but that you would totally change your life. I mean, you made a decision not to work. That so unlike the woman that [00:19:00] we thought we were looking at.
Ellen: Yeah.
Dorothy: Yeah. So now say that again about your first phase was—
Ellen: Creating silence.
Dorothy: Okay. Describe that.
Ellen: So I knew enough about myself that I am very driven. I’m very action oriented. I love people and meeting people. So I’m a gifted networker because of that. Um, cause this happened to me one other time in my career when I had left Weatherford. Um, we work okay if I took two years off. Um, that lasted about six weeks.
Dorothy: Oh.
Ellen: So I had that experience.
Dorothy: Right.
Ellen: Right. I was supposed to rest and I did not. And I remember my dad, even at the time saying, Ellen, it’s okay to just take some time for yourself. So, and that’s why I needed to put together a plan and, um, and I needed to really think through what was I going to do.
So creating silence meant that I wasn’t going to take recruiter phone [00:20:00] calls. I wasn’t going to network. I was only going to connect with my family, my close friends, and I was going to read. And I literally, I had a timeline, an agenda every day, where the first thing I did when I woke up in the morning was, um, I would read. And I always had two books going on. I would read kind of a self help kind of development book, and I would just read something fun for myself. So in the morning when your mind is the brightest, I wanted to read kind of a self help book, because then that would, yeah, I’d be thinking about it all day, right?
So I’d do that for an hour every morning. Then I’d get my coffee, get ready, see my daughter off to school. Then in the afternoon, I’d spend another hour reading, reading something fun. This was like part of my plan. So for three months, I was so proud of myself, Dorothy. My friends were shocked. I really didn’t network.
Dorothy: Wow. What about going cold Turkey? I mean—
Ellen: I did, yes. I [00:21:00] kept myself super busy though.
Dorothy: Okay.
Ellen: Which, that was the part of me I knew I needed to fulfill. So I, um, visited friends. I, uh, spent a lot of time at our lake house. I, um, started hanging out with my, my daughter who’s a junior at the time, and I started meeting her friend’s moms whom I’d never been able to hang out with before, ’cause they were like, stay at home moms or they were doing stuff during the day. I wasn’t available. And I didn’t realize the, how pleased, it was part of me also trying to reconnect with my kids and to build bridges. My kids actually saw me actually project managing, spending time with them, which meant that I was actively trying to be a part of their life, which they’d never seen me really prioritize that before.
Dorothy: So they felt even more important.
Ellen: They, you know, it’s, it’s a work in progress.
Dorothy: But that’s such a great [00:22:00] story.
Ellen: It’s a start.
Dorothy: I mean, you think you’ve lost him at 16, 17, and actually you doing that had that, you had that opportunity to reconnect. Yeah.
Ellen: You know, Dorothy, I don’t think I share this with you. Remember when we were on the panel and I share that story about, I was on, I was traveling and my youngest daughter called to just talk to me, right? When I got off the stage and I was heading out, this lady comes up to me. I don’t know who she is. I still don’t know who she is. And she had a piece of paper, and she gave me that piece of paper, and she said, Ellen, when you said that, I want you to know that I was praying for you.
And this verse came to mind, and she wrote this on this piece of paper, and she gave me the paper. I waited until I got in my car to open up the, it was a verse, and um, I don’t have the verse exactly memorized, but the verse was, um, “When the locusts are in the desert, God will restore that [00:23:00] time.” And the verse was basically when, when you’ve had times of dryness in your life, God will restore it.
Dorothy: Oh, that’s beautiful.
Ellen: I still don’t know who she is.
Dorothy: Well, you didn’t have to know.
Ellen: And she just, you know, heard that. Took the time to write that down. For me? And to pray for me? She doesn’t know me? That was, and I share that story now a lot, because I didn’t fully appreciate the importance of telling my story. The good, the bad, the ugly. And how it could not only touch other people, but how it um, comes back and feeds me. Because her doing that for me gave me the reassurance that Ellen, be [00:24:00] patient. Things will not change overnight. Keep trying. You’re not at this alone. You have your friends, but you have a higher being who’s looking out for you.
Um, and I, I, I needed that. And it was just, it was so touching. Um, so that was my creating silence period. That three months of just being silent, being quiet, listening to myself. I did some activities, um, to try to figure out who I am at 52. And, um, because I knew the next phase, um, was a time of trying to figure out who I am and what kind of career do I want next.
I think also when you’re at the stage of being in your 50s, and it’s certainly my dad’s passing. You know, kind of, you know, he was 76. And so, of course, in your [00:25:00] mind, you’re like, okay, I’ve got 24 years left. And what am I going to do with those 24 years? And I knew that in my past, this is a part of me I hate.
I hate that I like the titles. I hate that I like to drive expensive cars. I hate that I like shopping and buying clothes. Like I don’t like that about myself because I don’t want that to be, um, what’s important in life. And so I really started thinking about how do I, how do I look at this next phase without the titles, without the brand name of the company?
Like, like Ellen, you want to, um, leave the world a better place. You’ve had these experiences that you could share. What are you going to do? So that was going to be my next three months of, um, starting to reconnect with people and I [00:26:00] called it my reconnect phase, where I then start kind of networking again and start seeking out what are the different options for jobs out there.
Um, so I started that phase. Dorothy, at the beginning of that next 90 days, like, day two. Um, wonderful lady who’s here, uh, called me and said, um, Ellen, would you be open to talking to this company? They’re thinking about hiring an HR person, their private equity. I know you’re not looking for a full time job, but maybe you can just help answer their questions.
Oh yeah, sure. I’d love to do that. I love meeting new people. So I went to that meeting. At the end of that meeting, they’re like, Ellen, we want you to work for us. And I said, thank you. I’m not ready to go back. And they’re like, well, why don’t you consider doing a consulting project with us? I’m like, oh, well that might be interesting.
Let me [00:27:00] take some stuff away and come back to you. That was literally like week one of that next 90 days. Then I got a call from an old friend whom I’ve known in the industry for about 15 years and he’s a new head of HR for a sizable company. And, um, I could tell he was trying to call to recruit me and I wasn’t really ready to go back full time.
So he said, why don’t you come and consult with me? And I’m like, wait a second. That’s two in one week. Then I got another call from a cousin who said, Hey Ellen, I know you’re not working right now. One of my good friends, um, is a, uh, is a CEO at this company he just joined and he’s got a lot of HR questions. Could you talk to him? I said, sure. So I, I go meet with him, talk to him, at the end of that, he’s like, I could really use your help. Would you consult? So these three [00:28:00] things came about within like a two week period. And so I use this quote, I felt God wasn’t just opening a door for me. I felt like God was kicking me through the door.
It was, you always say, like, you know, crack the door open, you know, God opened this door for me. This was not just God opening the door. He was literally kicking me, like, don’t be stupid, Ellen. This is what I want you to do. Like, I felt like he kicked me through the door. Because I couldn’t say, so within a matter of, I think, 30 days, I had two contracts signed.
And I hadn’t even decided I was going to do this full time. As I was talking to, you know, my friends and people I trusted, um, they were like, Oh yeah, this makes so much sense, Ellen. Like, [00:29:00] yeah, we could see how you would be good at this. And you know, everybody anyways, like you’re just, you know, like that’s one of your gifts.
And of course we’re going to listen to you. You’ve always helped us out. Like, why wouldn’t we listen to you? And, um, so that’s, that’s how I came upon my next stage. Is I’ve started a consulting company called EYC Advisory. I’m a team of one. Um, I want to keep it small like that right now. Um, I call myself a strategic advisor. I remember thinking I had to update my LinkedIn and um, it was the first time I didn’t hem and haw over the title.
Dorothy: Really?
Ellen: And it, it hit me. A couple of days later. I did not hem and haw over that.
Dorothy: It wasn’t that important.
Ellen: It wasn’t that important anymore.
Dorothy: So do you think you would have [00:30:00] ever been able to make that decision if you hadn’t taken those three months?
Ellen: I don’t think so. I think I was too close to it. I think I was still, um, a little too selfish. Um, looking at the what’s in it for me. I think the decision to, to do this was not about, it wasn’t about the money. I’m not making the same money I was making when I was working. Um, and I’m okay with that. I still struggle with it every day.
Um, but I do feel like, cause now I’m working with companies who want to hear my experiences. They want to know the mistakes I’ve made, how we’ve tackled things. Um, the CEO I’m working with the other day, he’s like, God, am I crazy? Like, is the cultural issues here so bad that [00:31:00] I’m never going to be able to fix it?
And I was like, no, it’s not that bad. We can fix it. I’ve seen this before. And let me tell you exactly how we can do it. And just the relief on his face when he heard me say that. You know, it was like, wow, like I can help him turn this company around and turning the company around and giving them good culture means that I can save a hundred jobs in communities where they can go and give back and, and do, and, and so for me, the consulting has been a great way to leverage my experience, impact as many people as I can. It’s not just one company, it’s a series of companies. And I’m having so much fun doing it. Um, I’m just, I’m having a blast doing it. I’m new at this. I hope to continue to [00:32:00] get the projects. Things are busy, which is really good. The pipeline I think is, looking good going into next year, but I don’t know how much, how long I’ll do this for it. I could do this for the next 15 years. So I’m again, still figuring things out, but it really feels like I’m at the right place.
Dorothy: Yes. And you found your calling.
Ellen: I think so. I, again, I still have my struggles, um, still a work in progress, but as long as I can be of help to CEOs and boards and other companies, and I can make them better people.
Dorothy: Yeah.
Ellen: And I can help them make their companies great. Then that’s. Like what, what, what a cool legacy to leave.
Dorothy: Yeah. What do I.
Ellen: Yeah.
Dorothy: That’s perfect.
Ellen: So it’s a very, very long answer to your question.
Dorothy: So we’re going to stop there because I want to go back for just a minute and go through this in a very different way, talking about your feelings during this [00:33:00] time. I mean, you made a huge career change and I just want to talk about that. So we’re going to come right back in just a few minutes.
Post-Credits: Thank you for joining us today on Let’s Talk About Your Breasts. This podcast is produced by Speke Podcasting and brought to you by The Rose. Visit therose.org to learn more about our organization. Subscribe to our podcast, share episodes with friends, and join the conversation on social media using #LetsTalkAboutYourBreasts. We welcome your feedback and suggestions. Consider supporting The Rose. Your gift can make the difference to a person in need. And remember, self care is not selfish. It’s essential.
