Dorothy: [00:00:00] Charlie Morris worked at one of the refineries that made Houston, Houston. He was an old hand at wearing hard hats, checking steaming valves, and handling shutdowns. It was dangerous work. There were so many things that could go wrong. Then one day, they did. But it had nothing to do with his job. He never imagined that someday he would be standing in front of a hundred co workers.
Mainly men and telling his story of finding a lump in his breast and what it took to finally become a cancer survivor. Let’s Talk About Your Breast. A different kind of podcast presented to you by The Rose. The Breast Center of Excellence and a Texas treasure. You’re going to hear frank discussions about tough topics. And you’re going to learn why knowing about your breast could save your life. Join us as we hear another story, and we answer those tough questions that you may have.[00:01:00]
Charlie, you worked at one of the plants out here in Pasadena for 36 years. Describe that job for us.
Charlie: So I, I hired on, uh, when I was 19, pretty much out of high school, and I was an operator on what they call a, uh, fluid catalytic cracking unit, which Brings in the oil and breaks it down into gasoline, butane, protein, propane, and, uh, different components to ship off and, uh, be an operator, you know, you wear your fire-retardant materials, your hard hats, you, you’re, you’re out there, you’re doing day to day process work, you’re there for emergencies, sometimes you’re there 24, 36 hours at a time if there’s a major emergency, uh, just on and off and through the 36 years I progressed, uh, became an, [00:02:00] uh, actual insight control operator where I actually ran the unit, I controlled the temperatures, controlled the pressures and settings and the product qualities and things like that.
On up to the later years, my, about my last 10 years there, I was actually in, uh, the training department working on training console operators to operate the computer systems, which now run the units back when I first started, that were all like pneumatic knobs and dials and things you’d tap with a quarter or something to make sure they’re correct.
Dorothy: Oh, my goodness. Well, since the first time I met you, I always. saw you as one of these men’s men, you know, as one of those guys that I don’t guess at the plant they had very many women to begin with, maybe not even at the end, but. You were working with men in a field that was very much a man’s world and required a lot of strength and a lot of [00:03:00] perseverance and just plain old staying with it.
Charlie: Yeah, I would probably say operator wise, the job like I did, out of about 700 employees, probably 100, 150 were women, not very many at all. Uh, there was a woman when I hired on, on our unit, so, you know, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve worked with, there’s always been a woman on our unit one, one at a time that didn’t get very many.
Dorothy: So we’re going to fast forward to when you were diagnosed with breast cancer. Here you’re, you’re in a male world, any way you look at it. And how did you find your breast cancer?
Charlie: Well, strange story. I was in the shower, just showering, rinsing off. And when I rubbed across my left breast, I felt something.
So I went back and checked it again. And I felt, felt it again, like a little bump or [00:04:00] something just on the lower left of my areola and, um, I, uh, asked my wife when I got out to feel it, make sure I wasn’t imagining things. And she said there was something there on my breast and that we ought to have it looked at.
And I guess I noticed then by looking in the mirror, I had a slight downturn of my nipple, which after much Reading afterwards, I found out that’s a common sign of something in there.
Dorothy: All of these words that just fell out of your mouth just now, describing your body, those were not the words you would normally have been familiar with until this, this time, right?
Not at all. You wouldn’t have called your breasts breasts, you might have said chest or…
Charlie: Chest or moobs or…
Dorothy: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie: My son calls me “One Moob Morse” now, so… [00:05:00]
Dorothy: But I’m trying to set the stage for, you know, men don’t think of their breast as breast or as having breast cancer. That’s usually thought of as a woman’s disease.
So this had to be quite a shock for you to eventually learn that it was breast cancer. You had to do all the things a woman does, right? You had to have mammogram and ultrasound.
Charlie: Yeah, I went through everything a woman does. Like you said, it was, I never knew it that men could have breast cancer. Um, when I found a lump, of course, I just went to my family doctor, you know, it’s, you know, no big deal.
It’s probably nothing because I’ve had lipomas on other parts of my body, which are nothing. And that’s what he said. Oh, it’s probably a lipoma and sent me for an ultrasound. But I didn’t just something about my body. I didn’t feel comfortable, just [00:06:00] something in me. I didn’t feel comfortable. So I called Dr. Melillo cause she’s dealt with my mother in law and my wife. And so I knew her because I always took them to their appointments. And, uh, she checked me and said, yeah, we need to have. You go through the system of a, a mammogram and ultrasound, and I was scared to death of a mammogram because I’ve heard my wife’s story sometimes, but it wasn’t near as bad as I thought it was.
Dorothy: So that was, that’s one of the big surprises to most men, that they can even have a mammogram. So, was it awkward? Uncomfortable?
Charlie: It was a little bit awkward, a little bit uncomfortable. BNA. extra handsome sized person like I am, you know, I’ve always been a little bit more endowed there. So it was probably a little easier for him than a man that may not have a lot of tissue up in that area.
So they managed to. [00:07:00] Excuse the expression, but it squeezed the heck out of me.
Dorothy: Yes, which they had to, to be able to see it on the film. So, describe your time, and I’m asking these questions, I know they’re a little bit personal, but these are the things that… Men don’t think about what was it like just be in the waiting room waiting to have your mammogram I mean what went through your mind and how did all that feel and…
Charlie: Well. Well sitting in in a waiting room was no big deal because I sat there with my wife and my mom before so That’s not a big deal.
What was Funniest part was when they came out and asked for Mrs. Morrison, I stood up and they looked at me, I said, it’s Mr. Morris, going back there. And of course, you know, back in the earlier years, not, not when I went through it, my wife always talked about how women just walked around shrouded back in the hallways, you know.
So I [00:08:00] was real apprehensive, you know, trying to make sure I didn’t make any women feel uncomfortable because I didn’t want to make women feel uncomfortable with me being there.
Dorothy: And that’s a good point. I hadn’t thought of that. So, what was the most difficult thing that you had to do during this whole process?
Was it the… assimilation of, oh, you have breast cancer or was it the testing or the facing up to it, the oncology part?
Charlie: I think the most difficult part that I had was probably more of facing up to it and then, Getting over the initial fear and shock and then getting on with, I’m going to be okay, I’m in good hands, I’m going to be taken care of.
And then going through all my, uh, chemotherapy during COVID because it was right at the high. [00:09:00] I started chemotherapy on January 9th of 2020, right at the beginning of COVID.
Dorothy: When I, when I was looking at your information and saw that I went, Oh, someone else who had to deal with that. So alone, not having your spouse there or anyone to support you in the room as you’re talking.
To the doctors and of course you have so many doctors It seems like one after the other when you’re doing all that and you’re trying to remember everything There’s telling you and which is impossible.
Charlie: It was difficult She got to my wife got to go through the first two rounds At that time or I think it’s called “AC”, but it’s most commonly known as a “Red Devil”
Dorothy: Yes
Charlie: And, uh, she got to go in with me on the first two rounds and then they stopped any visitors from coming in as well and, and even all the way up through the end [00:10:00] of ringing the bell, they wouldn’t let her come in, but I fooled them.
Dorothy: You fooled them?
Charlie: Yeah. I said that I, I couldn’t walk hardly and I needed a wheelchair and she had to wheel me up. So she wheeled me up.
Dorothy: Oh, Charlie.
Charlie: And then I walked out.
Dorothy: Oh, no, goodness.
Charlie: But, you know, she wanted to be there for the ringing of the bell.
Dorothy: Of course, of course. Now, I’ve had several other thoughts.
You didn’t have anybody in your family that had breast cancer, did you?
Charlie: I’ve had, uh, some aunts on my dad’s side. Oh, okay. And an aunt on my, uh, mother’s side. That’s had breast cancer. So…
Dorothy: And you did the genetic testing?
Charlie: Yes, ma’am. I did the genetic testing. And, you know, talking to the genetic people, it was all about, you know, mutations and things like that.
But I came back perfectly normal. There were no mutations, which is common in [00:11:00] a lot of men because if they have a mutated BRCA gene, then they’re more apt to get breast cancer. There was none in mine. So it was just, you know, who knows?
Dorothy: Who knows, but, but I know you struggled with that question of why, if I have no genetic, uh, issues going on, you know, why did I have this?
That, that was kind of puzzling. I’m sure at the time.
Charlie: Well, yeah. And, and things still go through my mind because 36 years in the plant worked around a lot of carcinogens and things like that. So. You know, oh, yeah, you just never know.
Dorothy: And and from where I sit I hear that often in different people. They they want to know a reason for this and You know, the thing I’ve learned, and remember I’m not a physician, but the thing I’ve learned is breast cancer just happens.
You know, you didn’t bring it on, nothing you did could [00:12:00] cause it, it just happens. And it’s such an insidious disease that it’s very, very scary. Now in men, this kind of cancer can be very deadly. And I’m sure in your research you discovered that.
Charlie: Yeah, uh, I have. Discovered quite a few groups online and stuff on Facebook and reading their stories that They find it in a later stage, and yes, it can be deadly.
There’s, you know, I read of deaths all the time from it. Uh, you know, I feel myself was fortunate. I found it real early.
Dorothy: Right. And you paid attention to.
Charlie: Right?
Dorothy: Yes. Yes. I mean, and it’s something like 25 percent of all the men who develop breast cancer will not make it to that fifth year and you’re almost there.
I was thinking. Almost. Almost there, yes. But yours was found very early. But [00:13:00] you did have to do an extra amount of chemotherapy. It seems like your chemotherapy was very intense. And was that just because it wasn’t responding or extra precautions or what?
Charlie: So when they took the tumor out, they sent it out for what they call an Onco test.
And the Onco scores tell you somewhat the likelihood of reoccurrence. So when I got mine back, it was a 27 percent chance of reoccurrence, which I’m an odds player, but my oncologist, um, Dr. Bueno, Yuma Bueno at MB Anderson, she said that if I have chemo and they hit it aggressively, that lowers my odds down to 12%.
I’m an odds player. I’m going to take them odds every day.
Dorothy: Every day.
Charlie: You know, I know chemo is tough, but I went [00:14:00] through a total of 16 rounds of chemo. Four Red Devil and then 12 of the I can’t think of the other one.
Dorothy: Yeah. Yeah. So that’s, that’s an important thing for our listeners to hear these different tests that you’re taking.
Give us ranges. Give us. Odds as you put it and whatever we feel like we have a little bit of control over—
Charlie: Exactly.
Dorothy: —time. Yeah. Yeah.
Charlie: You know, like You ask yourself, why me, but as my wife and I have always said, when people say, why me, it’s like, why not you? What makes you different?
Dorothy: Yeah.
Charlie: I’m no different than any other man.
Uh, so, you know, I’m going to do what I can do to make sure that I survive.
Dorothy: Absolutely. Yeah. Now, I think the most special part about your story, is how you found the courage to get up in front of a [00:15:00] group of your co workers and colleagues and tell your story that first time.
Charlie: Yeah, so it just so happens I was diagnosed in October, which a lot of large fundraisings at that time.
And… I, uh, got with our coordinator at the plant and told her that I would like to do this, you know, talk to these people because a lot of men out there are unaware and there’s some majority male plant, you know, so I got up in front of him, talked to him, told my story during the United Way campaign with the United Way coordinator there and told him some of the important things and.
You know, we, we have good insurance at work, we’re in a plant, you know, we got some pretty good insurance and I [00:16:00] try to instill on them, don’t hesitate, you know, get a checkup. And I, I discovered there were several men out there that had it that I’ve worked with for 20 years and never knew it.
Dorothy: Right.
Charlie: You know, so a lot of men won’t talk about it.
Uh, it’s like I say, it’s nothing you can help. So you might as well. Spread the word so more men know, and it was hard talking about them, but I did four sessions and there’s about 150 in each session, different people. So it worked out really good, I think, uh, getting the word out and plugging The Rose, of course, because I’d let them know the importance of.
If we go to The Rose with insurance, it helps people that don’t have insurance get the same screenings,
Dorothy: including men.
Charlie: Including men. That’s good. Yeah.
Dorothy: So. And I’m just curious, did anyone make fun of you or anything when you [00:17:00] first started talking about it? Did any of the men go, seem obviously embarrassed or, or did you get any of that kind of reaction?
Charlie: Actually, this is probably part that really nobody ever know, but uh, there were a couple of guys that I worked with on a daily basis that actually wanted to feel it to see what it felt like.
Dorothy: Oh.
Charlie: And I led them. It was no big deal. You know, so yeah, I guess in a way I did get some feedback, you know, I didn’t really get any uh, Harassment like it wouldn’t be harassment, but any kidding about you know, well always knew you were on the feminine side or something You know, I never got any of that back at me.
Dorothy: That’s so interesting though that they wanted to feel it.
Charlie: I thought maybe they were on the feminine side
Dorothy: No, you didn’t.
Charlie: No, I didn’t. No, they’re married men. That’s But.
Dorothy: I had, I don’t think I’ve [00:18:00] ever heard that response, but you know, when you think about it, of course, why does it feel, well, you know, men have a mastectomy just like a woman.
Charlie: Oh, most definitely. I know.
Dorothy: Yeah. And, and, and I think that’s important, not so much for our listeners to know, but it is the same treatment that a woman might have. And so yes, your body does look different.
Charlie: Yeah, the same exact treatment as a woman, because there’s very little known about male breast cancer.
Dorothy: That’s so true.
Charlie: They’re doing more and more research, but as far as what is known is still very, very not known, should I say.
Dorothy: No, you’re right. You’re absolutely right. I mean.
Charlie: The medications are the same as a woman and everything else.
Dorothy: And I know with some other male breast cancer patients, they’ve talked about they didn’t have the same reactions that women do.
And that always, you know, upsets the treatment plan because, [00:19:00] you know, and it just has to do with that difference in our bodies, the difference in our hormone responses. And, uh, but until there’s a better way, that’s what we’ve got to work with.
Charlie: Oh, most definitely. You know, you have to work with what you got and, you know.
I thank God every day that, you know, he, God made, you know, to me, God made everything. And he gave me the mindset and gave everybody else in the world the mind to make their decisions, to seek that education of the ones that are providing all this help for us and stuff. You know, it’s just really great to go on that path.
It’s all God’s will, I guess.
Dorothy: Right. And you spoke a little bit about the different groups you saw online that, you know, a lot of this day and age. There are so many more male breast cancer resource groups than there used to be [00:20:00] even five years ago. So that was a help for you. I mean, you didn’t have any problem going to look for them.
engaging with other men on this?
Charlie: I didn’t have any issues at all. Um, there’s, like I say, several groups online, uh, His Breast Cancer, uh, Male Breast Cancer Brothers, several more, and there’s, uh, one called, um, Uh, man up to cancer, the howling place. So this, that’s not just breast cancer. It’s all men in cancer.
It’s a men’s group where men can talk about their cancer problems with other men, but there’s a lot of breast cancer people on there as well. So it really helps to talk and stuff. And, and my story has been published on his breast cancer website as well as published before with y’all.
Dorothy: It’s so interesting, Charlie, because, um, Men aren’t known to talk with each other about such [00:21:00] personal things.
Charlie: They’re really not, and, and men need to talk just as much as women do, really.
Dorothy: Great advice.
Charlie: To help, to help get their mind at ease and to help them see what’s coming and know what’s coming and, and know how to respond to certain things.
Dorothy: Absolutely. And that little bit of getting out of your head can really help because you worry.
There’s, there’s hundreds of questions. You, you don’t know what’s going to come up next.
Charlie: I mean, just listening in the groups or, you know, most of it was online typing, but reading different things, you learn questions that you might need to ask your oncologist.
Dorothy: That’s right. That’s a good point. And again, we’re encouraging men, if you’re experiencing this or think you might have something, you know, don’t.
Hide it under a bushel. Go in and find out about it because that’s the whole key. [00:22:00] You, from the beginning, went right in.
Charlie: Right in.
Dorothy: And so many men will wait, and then that waiting can really make a difference in treatment.
Charlie: Yeah, I didn’t hesitate, uh, well, like I said, my mother in law’s had breast cancer that I helped take her to treatments and stuff.
So I didn’t really hesitate on wanting to find out. Now, not knowing that men can get breast cancer when I felt something, it felt kind of weird. But
Dorothy: yeah.
Charlie: You know, and there was a guy I worked with every day up in the control room. He came to me after this and said that he felt something, and I gave him Dr.
Melillo’s information. He actually came here, but his was okay. It was negative.
Dorothy: So it is important to share your story, especially with those co workers who may have a little trouble accepting it, but hey, it’s, it’s part of your, it’s part of what you are now charged to do. [00:23:00]
Charlie: Right. Most, most definitely.
Keeping positive and spreading your story and not letting it get you down is probably to me the most important key in recovery.
Dorothy: That is so true. Staying positive, believing in what the doctor’s telling you, or at least having that comfort level that what what’s going on is what needs to happen. And of course, you don’t know that if you don’t have that little bit of education about it or have that someone to talk to.
Charlie: Exactly, uh, you know, like, like I always tell people is if you don’t feel comfortable with your first meeting with your doctor. There’s others in Houston. We live in the greatest medical center area in the world.
Dorothy: That’s right.
Charlie: So there are many others with just as much, if not more, experience.
Dorothy: And that is such an important message, Charlie.
So many people get discouraged. They don’t connect with that doctor. [00:24:00] Then they don’t always follow the treatment, or they don’t believe they’re getting better. And like you said, that attitude can make all the difference in the world and, and how you recover.
Charlie: Most definitely.
Dorothy: So when you introduce yourself, do you say, Hi, I’m Charlie, I’m a breast cancer survivor?
Charlie: No, no, no, no, no. I don’t say, Hi, I’m Charlie. I got one moob. No, I’m just joking. But I don’t really, uh, Uh, say I’m a breast cancer survivor, but usually comes up in conversation pretty quick.
Dorothy: That’s interesting.
Charlie: Uh, we talk about whoever we’re talking to, you know, it’ll usually come up in some form of the conversation and, and people are like, men can get breast cancer?
You know, I say, yes, they can. Um, I don’t know if you remember right about the time I was diagnosed. I think it was Beyonce’s dad got diagnosed. Yeah. So that was right at the same time I was diagnosed, [00:25:00] which sort of helped in a way because he publicly on TV came out about it too. You know, every little bit helps
Dorothy: every little bit.
Yes. And of course, for the work you were doing and the work you were in, you know, that that’s just to be such a contrast for you to be able to say that and share it with your colleagues. And, you know, once again, you’re talking about the importance of not being concerned. Not being embarrassed. It is a cancer, right?
Charlie: It’s cancer. It’s just like prostate cancer that men get or, you know, any other cancer that anybody gets, you fight it and you go on.
Dorothy: Charlie, what other words of wisdom would you give our listeners?
Charlie: Most importantly, you know, with me going through this with COVID, I really found out. My strength all came from my wife.
I’d been, we’ll, we’ll be married 39 years this year. So, [00:26:00] and her strength came from me because we’re isolated. So we had nobody but each other. Couldn’t get around groups. Had to keep my grandkids away because they’re going to school and stuff. I didn’t want to take chances of getting COVID. You know, everybody had to stay isolated.
And I think the most important thing is staying positive and surround your people, surround yourself with positive people. And that was the first thing I told my kids and stuff. We’re not going to talk negativity. We’re not going to say, what if this or what? It’s not what if it’s like when I’m cured or positive, I’m going to be cured.
So keep positivity around you. If negativity does show up. Tell the people, no, no, there’s nothing negative about it. I’m going to be cured. I don’t want to hear any negativity. If you can’t be positive, go somewhere else.
Dorothy: Good [00:27:00] advice, good advice. And, and your wife was able to hang on to that positive, I mean, she had to be scared and worried.
Some of that time or
Charlie: she was scared and worried. Like I say, she, uh, man, I don’t know if I’d made it without her, but, um, I mean, there was times, but I’m, I’ve always been a, a happy go lucky type of person, you know, I don’t worry about. My wife’s a planner. Everything has to be planned. I’ve never planned nothing.
I’m a spontaneous person. This is, this is it. Oh, hey, we’re going to Cancun tomorrow. What? No. Things like that. So it’s, she, she took care of me so well that I can say I’m probably, if anybody that’s had cancer that I’ve ever heard of going through chemo, I never got sick. She [00:28:00] kept up on my, my nausea medication and everything, and just kept me comfortable and took care of it.
I had a lot of support from the community, or we both did.
Dorothy: Mm-Hmm.
Charlie: from the community church groups made me quilts, things like that. So I think with my attitude and, and my. There’s another word besides jokiness, but I use jokiness. That it helped keep her on the positive side because she knows how I am that I’m not going to let things get me down.
Dorothy: Y’all made a good team to fight this disease.
Charlie: We do. We make a real good team. We’re still fighting. Still fighting. Working for that five year.
Dorothy: Looking for that five years. And, and in October you… Go and have your mammogram, right?
Charlie: I go and have my mammogram every year in October. Schedule it at The Rose, we go together.
Dr. Melillo will tell you there’s [00:29:00] not very many husband and wife teams that come in together to get mammograms. But we do. Not in the same room, of course. Right, right. We’re separate rooms, but. We do go in together.
Dorothy: That’s a whole new take on mammograms. This is the one time when it’s a shared, a shared procedure.
I love that.
Charlie: So it’s, it’s really funny on the mammogram. Go back to the mammogram. Now that I’ve had a mastectomy, how they can still get a mammogram on that. I’m like, it’s concave now. What are you squeezing?
Dorothy: No, but they can. They do. They can. They’re looking for that one little trace that something else might show up.
That’s right. And, and it’s, it’s just amazing how. How advanced all of this technology has gotten and thank goodness. Yeah, it’s really is. We so appreciate you coming by today and, and sharing your story. It’s a great story, Charlie. Thank you.
Charlie: [00:30:00] Well, I, I appreciate y’all having me and like I say, I’ve always been a supporter of The Rose and I hope more people get behind y’all and keep y’all growing and going.
We love that idea. I like the new, uh, buses y’all have.
Dorothy: Oh, I know. Our five coaches are wonderful.
Charlie: I’m going to drive one, one day.
Dorothy: Okay. Hey, we need help.
Charlie: I’m there.
Dorothy: All right. Thanks again, Charlie.
Charlie: Thank you.
Dorothy: So that wraps it up for today. And don’t forget, we’re doing a episode every single day. You’re going to get your daily dose.
of Let’s Talk About Your Breasts during the month of October.
Post-Credits: October is the month of pink and for The Rose, a Breast Center of Excellence, that means we’ll be airing podcasts every day in October to celebrate Breast Cancer Awareness Month. We’ll be sharing everything from men who have had breast cancer to what happens when you are pregnant and diagnosed with cancer.
Be sure to share with family and friends because there’s a little something for everyone. To find out ways to help the Rose visit our website at [00:31:00] therose.org. Remember, self-care is not selfish. It’s essential.
