She Broke the Taboo of Talking About Breasts in Her Community

Dorothy: [00:00:00] In this woman’s community, talking about breasts is an absolute taboo, but she not only talked about breasts, she talked about her surgery, and she insisted on bringing the mobile coach to her mosque. Listen to what Ashma Moosa did to turn women around and help them understand why they really needed to have their annual mammograms.

Let’s Talk About Your Breast. A different kind of podcast presented to you by The Rose, the Breast Center of Excellence, and a Texas treasure. You’re going to hear frank discuss Discussions about tough topics and you’re gonna learn why knowing about your breast could save your life. Join us as we hear another story and we answer those tough questions that you may have.

Hi, it’s a brand new day and this is Dorothy Gibbons, CEO and Co-founder of The [00:01:00] Rose. And we are here to talk about your breast. Today we have with us Ashma Moosa, who is one of those extraordinary women who is always busy, never says no, and she’s also a two time cancer survivor. She’s, uh, very active in her community. She’s a, a coach, a health coach, and she’s run the LaPorte Clinic for 35 years, and she’s an — . So, Ashma, tell us a little bit about your story, and You started with us as a patient, is that right?

Ashma: Correct. Yes, I was actually, my second cancer was breast cancer. And, um, usually we send our patients over here from the clinic, but the tables were turned this time. And I got a call from The Rose, uh, saying that there’s something suspicious in the, uh, in the mammogram. And so that’s where my journey began, is at The [00:02:00] Rose. Um, I was, you know, when I got my mammogram done, whenever I come here, it’s so comfortable to be in this environment because of the way it’s set up and how the technicians, you know, treat you.

So I always felt very comfortable coming here. But coming in to get a biopsy done, I was a little nervous that day, uh, but Dr. Melillo, as wonderful as she is, she made me feel very comfortable. We got the biopsy done. And then we had to wait, um, for about a week to get the results back. Um, so that’s where it all began is at The Rose.

Dorothy: And this was not the easiest journey for you.

Ashma: No.

Dorothy: You, you certainly had, um, came at an awful time within your life and young children. And, uh, tell us a little bit about what was some of the most difficult times that you went through [00:03:00] there.

Ashma: So with compared to my first cancer, that which was thyroid and usually in the medical arena, if you have a diagnosis of a thyroid cancer, that’s the one you want because it’s very easily treated. But now this was my secondary primary cancer. Uh, and that’s when I kind of was a little bit more concerned and sometimes knowing too much, uh, being that my husband’s a physician and I’m a nurse and you know, we know a lot more and we see a lot more in the clinics. And that’s what kind of, I had a lot of questions and a lot of unknowns that were going through my head.

But my main thing was that I, I was very concerned about my children. Now they were old enough to understand the word cancer. So, me and my husband decided we were going to sit them down and tell them just enough what they need to know and if they had any other questions we would you know. But we made it sound like you know We were going to get through this together as a family [00:04:00] and we were going to use this opportunity to strengthen our bonds and get through this together and mommy will be tired and so she will need your help. But the schedules are going to remain pretty much the same because I didn’t want them to be scarred. When you have a change in their schedules, children become a little bit more displaced. And so I tried my very best to create an environment for my children at home that was normal, but yet I got some help. And that way I was able to not take on too much. And when it was Two o’clock after my chemo, I would get up and take a shower so they could see a normal mom at the door and I would, you know, greet them at the door when they got off the bus.

Dorothy: So your treatment included chemotherapy and surgery, and this was a pretty extensive [00:05:00] surgery?

Ashma: Yes, it was. Um, you know, one of the, the, the choices as a woman going through breast cancer— there’s so many choices for you now, depending on what kind of cancer you had. Mine was a little bit more of an aggressive type cancer, which they didn’t know until they got the surgical biopsy.

Initially, um, they recommended a lumpectomy. And I don’t know, for some reason, the lumpectomy didn’t sound like, it just felt like, there was going to be more later on being again thinking about being a second primary and I thought what if the cancer goes from one side to the other then I’ll have to end up going and getting another lumpectomy and So I I did pray about it. I’m a woman of faith and I made the choice of doing a bilateral mastectomy even though my physician was not happy because the outcomes are usually [00:06:00] the same, she said. So I went under, uh, decided to get a transplant, actually, because I didn’t want anything foreign in my body. So I told them, is there any way, the most natural way you can rebuild me after the mastectomy?

So I, I chose to do that. I did go and speak to several, uh, plastic surgeons. Anybody can remove the tissue, but how are you going to be put back together as a, as a woman feeling comfortable with her body? So I did my research and went ahead and went under this surgery, which was about 16 hours. So had, um, the breasts removed and then the plastic surgeon came in and did his part.

You know, and it’s amazing how sometimes your gut feeling tells you the right thing. And after I went in for my first checkup after my surgery, the surgeon sat down with me and she said, you know, you made the right choice because [00:07:00] your cancer was actually outside the margins. So we would have removed your right breast, not just done a lumpectomy.

So what you chose was perfect because we were able to remove that breast and the other one and rebuild you, you know, more of a symmetrical way. Um, so in a way, I, I felt like something was guiding me. The inner light was there, but then as they went in deeper, uh, into the biopsies and the biopsies are incredible these days, you know what they can tell you.

And they said that, you know, I had a HER2+ cancer, which can come back because of the surgery I had, um, maybe a cancer cell can float away somewhere and it can come back very aggressive. So I was recommended to do prophylactically chemotherapy. And I think that’s when I really lost my strength [00:08:00] and I got shattered.

And I thought, still I’m being tested? So my husband told me, he said, you know, I think we should just go ahead and get it done. So that way you bring your odds down. And I did it because I needed to bring all my odds down because I wanted to be here for my kids.

Dorothy: Right. And, and Fatima tells a story about coming home one day and finding you in that dark low place.

Ashma: Yes.

Dorothy: And describe that for us and, and tell us what she did to move her mother out of there.

Ashma: So, um, Initially, Fatima was, she’s always been a very, very sensitive person. My Isa, my younger one, is more bubbly and kind of goes along with things. So even when I was, lost my hair, she had a very hard time. I mean, she just got completely shattered.

And then one day she came home, uh, this was like maybe a year after my chemo [00:09:00] and I’ve had my surgery. I never really went back to get, um, what they call, uh, tattooing for your nipples because actually I, they gave me a choice whether you wanted to leave your nipples or not. And I chose not to because that’s where the cancer can reside and come back. So, basically I had nothing there and I guess she saw that I was very upset that day. And she was actually shadowing my plastic surgeon. Because she wanted to venture into this, um, you know, this field one day. So she said to me, Mom, I have seen those surgeries. How they re, you know, rebuild women. It’s amazing what they do.

It’s like a tailor tailoring out their whole body and redoing it. And she told me, she said, Mom, let me do some Henna art on you. Because she’s a henna artist. She’s a self taught [00:10:00] henna artist. So she kind of laid me down and said, Mom, I want you to just be still because I’m a, I’m one of those people that can’t stay still. I have to keep moving around. And I actually fell asleep and she was at, you know, my chest working at it and making these designs. And I, I, you know, I was just sleeping there on the lounger while she was doing this. And when I woke up, I looked at myself and I thought, Wow. I can’t see the scars. They’re gone.

And then she made an appointment with my plastic surgeon and told me, she said, Oh, they wanted to see you today. And she actually talked to the tattoo artists there at the plastic surgeon’s office that my mom is going to be here and we’re going to do those 3d tattoos. So again, I wanted to make my daughter feel completely comfortable talking about breasts and breast cancer because If I would have [00:11:00] hidden that I don’t think she would have felt comfortable even taking me that day.

Dorothy: So ashma talked to us a little bit about the indian, south asian culture that could really get in the way of women having screening or any of that. And by the way, you’re out in that community all the time talking to your sisters And and trying to share what you know about it. So tell us what is it that holds them back or—

Ashma: So initially, you know, I, when I finished my chemo and I decided that now it was my, my duty to turn around and help other women and empower them. So I decided to start my, uh, outreach at my place of faith. And when I started talking about breast cancer, there was a lot of resistance and especially from the the male part of the congregation. [00:12:00] And so I didn’t hold back. I thought, you know what, what I’ve been through, I want them to feel comfortable and go and get these tests done ahead of time. So there’s, and then, you know, we can prevent this. So I, Actually reached out to The Rose and said, I want to bring the mobile mammogram at the mosque.

I think I’m the first Muslim woman anywhere that has brought a mammogram machine at the mosque and I signed up maybe 20 women they had never had their mammograms done. They were over 40 Some of them are very scared But knowing that they were going to come to the mosque and we were going to give them the privacy to do do this, uh screening mammogram, they felt a lot more comfortable. Again, I got a lot of resistance And I had to really fight through that because I knew this is a mission that needs to be fought for women to empower them to feel comfortable talking about this [00:13:00] very sensitive subject And so many women came out of the woodworks, wanted to talk to me, felt more comfortable with me, because I gave them that, that safe space to speak about this.

They don’t want to talk about breasts. They don’t want to talk about their private, you know, private parts, or having a pap smear. They don’t want to talk about all that. But now I’m seeing the light. I’ve started a support group. So that gives them another space to sort of, um, talk and share and empower the women.

And that’s what we need to do is we as women, when we go through something, we’re like, okay, we got through this fine, but you need to share that. How did you get through? Maybe you might make a change for somebody else.

Dorothy: So true. So true. Now, you serve on The Rose board you have for many years now and you also are on the board at the at the mosque. And that’s pretty rare for a woman.

Ashma: Yes, it is. I I [00:14:00] want to mention one particular person that has made huge impact in our community and that’s our leader Dr. Basyouni, who is our Imam, who is our leader, and he is the one that gave me the voice in that community. And he asked me, he said, Sister, I want you to be on my board. And I want you to continue what you’re doing to bring, these subjects out and making women talk about it in the, and so we started doing a lot of programs, health and wellness and things like that during Ramadan, we do a biggest loser competition. So I thank my community leader because usually in a Muslim community, it’s not very common for women to have that leadership. Um, But I feel very, very, very, um, encouraged and very proud of my community and my leader.

Dorothy: Well, and certainly [00:15:00] you carry that role very well as a leader yourself. I look at your history and I think you’ve been volunteer extraordinary. You’ve, you’ve done so many special events just for your community. I think you were out doing presentations this last weekend like three times. I mean it’s just amazing the commitment you have to that. And, and we all know that this is a very private subject. And for you to be so open about it really, really makes a difference. So why is that support, you know, you talked, you mentioned your support group and why is that support so important?

Ashma: So, you know when I was going through again, I’m talking with my own experience why, why I do things and the way I do them because I try to look back and see what was lacking When I was going through this journey. And [00:16:00] I didn’t have a really safe space support group that I joined Because again with my culture nobody really It goes to those things, but as I was volunteering and I was, you know, going more into the breast cancer arena, as you would call it, maybe, you know, like, support groups are out there for women.

Um, there’s a lot of, um, times when you feel uncomfortable going to a support group. You know, and that’s from my own experience. I’m like, I don’t know if I really want to go to a support group— What am I going to do? Well, how are they going to help me? but As I understood more and more about what support groups can do I did uh further my certification in coaching. So my coaching actually is more geared to cancer; women; women is my soft spot and women that are depressed going through, [00:17:00] um, you know, there’s a lot of abuse and these women have no way, no place to go to talk about it.

And I think that’s what encouraged me, like, you know, I am blessed to have a support person, a spouse, a family. These women sometimes don’t have anything when they’re going through this cancer journey. So this gave me such a, um, I guess a, a way of comforting them and to let them know you can come here. You can, it’s okay to talk about, you know, how you’re feeling and it has really taken off really well.

Dorothy: Yes, it has. It’s, it’s really extraordinary. So you’ve been tireless in your fundraising and in your awareness and tell us how your event came about.

Ashma: So, I remember you recruiting me for The Rose, and I was [00:18:00] volunteering at MD Anderson at that time, and I was very involved there. And then, um, so what I did was, the first year of my survivorship, I wanted to celebrate and I thought I’m a really deep thinker —So I thought what can I do? I mean you can buy things for people, But what can I really do that they’ll remember? So I have a passion for tea parties because I used to have a tea room and I have a lot of teapots And tea sets so I thought you know what? Let me make a really nice tea party and to thank my my girlfriends and my community that helped me through whenever I’ve needed them. So I had that at my house initially and every year, you know, I would have, every year my, uh, I guess my tea party group grew because I was getting to know more survivors and then we would celebrate them during these tea parties and it would usually be in October, of course.[00:19:00]

And then here I am, now I’m joining the rows and my tea party is coming up. So that’s when I approached you and I said, you know, why don’t we make this a benefit? And you and I both know that initially I was very hesitant to have it at a tea room and I didn’t know how this was going to go. But we were sold out.

And I think we had to move immediately the following year to a bigger space. So. Here we are, um, I think this will be our seventh one, maybe? So, I feel so grateful that a small event like that can grow with love. And it takes time, and that, that event actually shows me that you should never give up.

Dorothy: You took this tea party, and you had for your friends, and then you started charging them to come to it.

Ashma: Yes, and it felt a little, [00:20:00] I don’t know how to charge it, I don’t know how to ask for, like, pay me for this. I, I just don’t know how to do that. So, when I had to ask them for, you know, the, for, I felt a little uncomfortable. I thought, you know, are they really going to pay for this, you know? And like I said, you know, they don’t mind because the mission behind The Rose and, The, the way I presented to them and again, the mission, the, uh, the, the way The Rose functions is the most important, I guess I want to say a ministry because when you, when three women with insurance come here, that pays for one woman, how much better can you, can you give back to your own community?

So that is one thing, but say if a woman does not have anything. She can still come to The Rose and she’ll be taken care of. And I love that mission and I think it’s because of my my strong faith that whenever you [00:21:00] work with somebody you should really look back and see. Yes, you’re gonna get back something from this, but what are you gonna give back to it? And so that has been my mission with The Rose and it just excites me to keep going and actually that gives me hope

Dorothy: Yes, now you call your event Hats and Heznna High Tea and everyone comes in hats And, I mean, it’s just a beautiful event. The women all just look so gorgeous, and you’re right, we had to move three times to accommodate the group. And, um, I think your last event was probably the most profound in that you had that play, live play, very short, but it certainly showed what can happen in a Muslim woman’s life when she has breast cancer. Really, really moving. And I was watching the people in the room and the women, you can see they, they just related immediately. They knew that [00:22:00] this is a, a hard thing. Sometimes very hard for the men to accept. And, and it ended beautifully. It was perfect. So, thank you for doing this. That, that, uh, tea has raised, uh, Over $100,000 easy.

Ashma: Yeah, I think so. I’ve lost count. You should know that.

Dorothy: I know that. I know. I was looking and it’s a bit over $100,000. That’s really incredible because this isn’t a high dollar event and yet to have raised that much. And you’ve certainly sent a lot of women to The Rose who needed our help as well as those who have the insurance.

Ashma: You know, I think my cancer journey is so meaningful. A lot of things have come out of it. And isn’t that what we’re supposed to do in our life is to find what are you supposed to do? Why are you here? And I think this is what gives me a great purpose of my life to be able to do that. Yes, the event is wonderful. It’s, you know, [00:23:00] people, women get out, meet other women. And I try to try to aim for, uh, you know, making it more cultural.

So we have the henna, the hats, the ethnic clothing, we’ve had fashion shows. And each event that I’ve done, I have to think very carefully. It’s not about the showing, you know, or, you know, making people feel like, oh, they have to come here and show off. Or, you know, there’s a lot of events out there that are more bougie, as you call it. But this is from beginning to end, very meaningful. And I have been told several times. Why don’t you change your event to serving wine or, you know? No, this event is not about pleasure in that sense. Yes, it’s fun, but I want them to walk away from their feeling like they learned something. They’re going to make a change in their life and they are going to give back to this [00:24:00] horrible, horrific disease that women go through.

Dorothy: So I read something the other day about once you found your purpose in life, then it’s your responsibility to give it away. And you have certainly, certainly done that. So Ashma, you had a very difficult time having children. You had several miscarriages. It was, uh, the dream of you and Dr. Moosa to have a family. So now that, that you have two, what do you hope for your daughter and your son as we move forward in life?

Ashma: So one of the things that, you know, my husband and I have always said, because these two children were truly a gift, I was told that I was not going to be a mother. But again, I put my faith in God and I did extreme treatments that probably no woman would probably go through. And I did this, I had seven pregnancies basically, [00:25:00] and I got two out of them. And I was told I could only have one and that’s it. But then five years later when I saw Fatima all, you know, alone and not a sibling, I thought, I need to try for another one.

When I went back to see my doctor, she was not happy at all, you know, and I can be very persistent, so she says, okay, okay, you know, we’ll go ahead and get the fertility, you know, medication started and all that, so we did all that, and again, it was the most impossible— I mean, we can do a whole show on this because it was the most impossible thing that became possible. And I don’t know, that was a blessing that came into our lives. And, you know, when we had our children, we love our children. We spend a lot of time with them. We, we actually, I prefer to spend time with them and show them the world. Let them see other cultures, other religions, to make them a better person.

I wasn’t worried about, you know, which college they were [00:26:00] going to go or which career they were going to pick. Our main goal is to make them good human beings and whatever will come out of it will come out and I’m seeing that in both my children. So that has never been a concern like what, go after your passion. That’s so important.

Dorothy: That’s so true. So true. And certainly your children have, they’ve really have followed all of your advice and you can tell they are.

Ashma: I hope so.

Dorothy: You know, they do. They do. So you mentioned it before, but I’d like to end on this one last question about who was your best support during this time.

Ashma: My husband. He’s a very rare human being. He’s just so always in a meditative state. He doesn’t even have to work hard at it. He loves what he does, and he loves me. Truly loves me. And I think when we, [00:27:00] two people, when they love each other and they’re engaged. I was actually recently told that, you know, we, we are so much disgustingly in love with each other.

You can’t stand it, but it’s like a pea in a pod. And when you have that kind of relationship with your, your spouse, so it could be a relationship with your sister that could be your supporter, but that relationship is so beautiful. And I think, I don’t think I would have been able to do all this without, and he, he’s my cheerleader. He never discourages me. He has never tried to change me since the day I got married. He lets me be who I am. And I have supported him 100 percent in his career and in his endeavors to start a practice. So, I think I made a good decision saying yes to him.

Dorothy: Oh yes, oh yes, of course. He’s your escort. He’s your friend. He’s, he’s always there with you, for you.

Ashma: Yes.

Dorothy: And we are very very grateful to [00:28:00] have you on our board to have you as a fundraiser for us and you’re helping us to reach a community we’d never ever be able to reach, but, you’re opening those doors and Introducing yourself and The Rose has meant so much to how many women we’ve seen I wouldn’t even start to guess how many you’ve sent to us.

Ashma: Yeah, I mean, you know, um When they see me, they’re like, here she comes, she’s gonna need a donation for The Rose or something. But, you know, I hold myself with great respect. And, whenever I voice my concern or my love for something, they know that, uh, you know, I am a woman that really means and where where I put my I put my talk where it’s supposed to be right and so they listen. They really listen. And again, you know that takes time it takes effort. It [00:29:00] takes an organization like The Rose to also back back you up and Dorothy you are You’re my mentor in so many ways.

Dorothy: Oh my goodness. Thank you for that, but I think it goes both ways. So, again, we’re so fortunate to have you and to have you on this program. Thank you for everything you’re doing in the community. Any final words for our audience?

Ashma: You know, I always end by saying that no matter what challenge you go through in life, that’s, that’s life. You are going to have small challenges and big challenges. Never lose hope. And even if you do lose hope, it’s okay sometimes to break down. But remember, when you’re standing up straight and everything went well, look around and see who else needs a lift.

Dorothy: Excellent. Excellent. Well, thank you so much and we will have another session very soon. I’m sure to [00:30:00] hear more about what you’re doing in the community And thank our listeners for joining us on Let’s Talk About Your Breasts.

Ashma: Thank you, Dorothy.

Post-Credits: Thank you for joining us today on Let’s Talk About Your Breasts. This podcast is produced by Freddie Cruz Creative Works and brought to you by The Rose. Visit therose.org to learn more about our organization. Subscribe to our podcast, share episodes with friends and join the conversation on social media using #Let’sTalkAboutYourBreasts. We welcome your feedback and suggestions. Consider supporting The Rose. Your gift can make the difference. And remember, self care is not selfish, it’s essential.